Music In The Cloud

[Feldon]

Another beer cloud (must get my brolly).

 

[1975sandman]

See what you started Truman? Beauty Beer and the Geek!

Seriously, interesting read though.

 

[technoicon]

this thread seems to be turning into an i know more than you, boring IT thread.. and way off topic.

i use music services..

 

[technoicon]

What do you mean by virtualising applications?

sorry i mean application virtulaization.. ie: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ent...tion/app-v.aspx

 

[benno1973]

So that's it then? Virtualisation has evolved to its end-point? That seems more like an indicator of further change rather than things staying the same to me.

Nope, that wasn't the intent of my post. Virtualisation will evolve, as will other technologies. My intent was to prove that it isn't a new concept - it was in response to the quote "...but just have a look at how they are starting to virtualise apps now...".

No-one here is saying that things won't change. Cloud computing isn't a new concept, it's the extension of an old concept and you'd have to be pretty brave to bet the bank on the next new technology to take off.

 

[MarkBastard]

So that's it then? Virtualisation has evolved to its end-point? That seems more like an indicator of further change rather than things staying the same to me.

Virtualisation itself is definitely not at its end point. I'd argue that virtualisation of a current operating system is a transition measure. Look at the Linux VPS industry for example. The big reason to use a VPS is to get the control of a dedicated server including full root access, while not having to pay the price of a dedicated server. So you have like 30 virtual linux operating systems running on the one physical box. However there's a lot of overhead there. It'd make more sense to just have one big operating system with the correct features to allow each user the level of access they need, jailed off into their own partition.

Or going on from there, if the applications being hosted are based on a standard development platform, they may not need that level of access in the first place.

It's really just a combination of clustering of hardware and virtualisation. However the virtualisation is a bit silly, as you're virtualising operating systems that were designed to run on hardware. It's a stop-gap solution in that regard.

But it's beside my particular point anyway, which is that the term cloud computing is a shit one that is deliberately misused by parasites in the industry.

 

[MarkBastard]

sorry i mean application virtulaization.. ie: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ent...tion/app-v.aspx

Hmm, shit name to describe that. Seems a lot like Adobe Flex etc. Offline web apps right?

I don't understand how software can be 'virtualised'. Know what I mean? I get it can run on virtual platforms, be platform independent, use rapid development frameworks, use rapid deployment, run on virtual machines ala Java, but I reckon referring to them as virtual apps is pretty shit. They're not virtual!

 

[technoicon]

Nope, that wasn't the intent of my post. Virtualisation will evolve, as will other technologies. My intent was to prove that it isn't a new concept - it was in response to the quote "...but just have a look at how they are starting to virtualise apps now...".

No-one here is saying that things won't change. Cloud computing isn't a new concept, it's the extension of an old concept and you'd have to be pretty brave to bet the bank on the next new technology to take off.

i meant how they are doing it, not that its a new thing.

 

[technoicon]

they will be. in fact the way it's been described to me is that there wont be a server with exchange installed on it. you will just have exchange as a virtual app, this would enable you to move this to any server or site. that's how I understand it anyway..

probably be told i'm wrong in the following posts.... ......

 

[benno1973]

i meant how they are doing it, not that its a new thing.

Yeh, sorry. I realised that after a few posts had passed and I saw your link

Anyways....


...who wants to talk about whether OSX is beeter than Windows 7?

 

[technoicon]

haha or how dell has cloned the mac!!

dell 14z

 

[MarkBastard]

they will be. in fact the way it's been described to me is that there wont be a server with exchange installed on it. you will just have exchange as a virtual app, this would enable you to move this to any server or site. that's how I understand it anyway..

probably be told i'm wrong in the following posts.... ......

I understand that, I'd just argue that the app itself is not virtual at all, it's just more scalable and flexible. All nice and self contained. You can already do the above, however they'll be making it easier.

There will still be guys doing all of the behind the scenes stuff. It's not going to get any less technical just because it's being sold that way to end users.

 

[WarmBeer]

...who wants to talk about whether OSX is beeter than Windows 7?

Windows < Mac OS < Linux

 

[benno1973]

Windows < Mac OS < Linux

Sorry, I forgot about Linux. But most people do, don't they...

 

[bum]

My apologies again. [EDIT: post took longer than expected, apology is for Kaiser Soze.]

Cloud computing isn't a new concept, it's the extension of an old concept

Yes, but only in a similar way that Babbage might have forseen the iPad (not that I'm putting that forward as the pinnacle of technology). I'm sure you follow.

and you'd have to be pretty brave to bet the bank on the next new technology to take off.

My previous rhetoric notwithstanding, yeah you're right. But there is a lot of money being made (and therefore invested) in cloud technologies already and it isn't even properly known what the cloud will even be. Unless something really bloody bad (i.e. worse) happens with someone like AWS this idea isn't going away in a hurry. Just beacuse it isn't new doesn't mean it can't gain momentum that will take people off-guard.

However the virtualisation is a bit silly, as you're virtualising operating systems that were designed to run on hardware. It's a stop-gap solution in that regard.

I don't suppose you catch public transport to work do you? I'm on the train every day and without fail I see a minimum of $5k worth of iPads on each carriage and I don't think that number is going to go down any time soon. At what point do you think these people are going to stop and wonder "Wait, why do I have this and a computer?"? I don't think it is all that far away.

But it's beside my particular point anyway, which is that the term cloud computing is a shit one that is deliberately misused by parasites in the industry.

Sure. But that doesn't make the cloud not a thing any more.

 

[WarmBeer]

Sorry, I forgot about Linux. But most people do, don't they...

Yes, nothing runs on linux.

Bye, bye www.aussiehomebrewer.com

 

[ShredMaster]

Hey bum, do you remember the Dot Com boom of the mid to late 90's? Every fucker who knew how to open Netscape ran off and pumped their millions into these new fandangled Website-thingys due to it being the next best thing about to take off and radically change the world. Then, do you remember the Dot Com Bust of the early 2000's? It didn't take off as far and fast as hoped an alot of people lost a hell of alot of money. Over the next 10 years or so they have been working out how to make money effectively with this interwebs thingy. I see the same thing happening with this Cloud concept being bandied about.

I'll never say that "Cloud Computing" is going to phase out and disappear, there are still Dot Com websites there long after the bust. More I'm saying that Cloud Computing is another trendy naming fad popping up in alot of IT mags, industry conferences and marketing literature and for the educated people who know what it is and how it works, it really just looks like a good job of marketing smoke and mirrors showing how great the world "could" be.

I hope it works well and I can see a hell of alot of great uses for it. When I see or hear people going on about cloud computing (or the other related "tech jargon" or acronyms for the same thing) it makes me wonder what they think it means.

EG: I once had to install 30 machines in an office and each one was setup with just Windows and MS Office. When it came to Internet Security, the client says "oh no, we get that from the Cloud". In talking further about it they informed me they have another "IT Guru" who will install all of their "Cloud Applications". Wow that sounds pretty cool, I finished up and left. Got called back a month or so later with a few machines doing wierd things and when I got there, their "Cloud Applications" were actually AVG Free, Adobe Reader and Firefox/Thunderbird which were downloaded and installed on each individual machine and using some online backup site (can't recall which) to keep a copy of the files for each separate machine. This client actually pays a guy to provide "Cloud Services" and all this provider does is hook each machine to the net, download and install free software and configure an online backup to be run on each machine sometime between closing time and opening time.

In my opinion, having a service/product/application on the internet available for people to use from any web browser is still just a bloody website, however complex and distributed it may be. As mentioned in earlier posts, it is an awesome way for idiots in marketing to sell the concept to idiots in administration and make the idiots in IT **** around trying to keep it working. All just by calling it "Cloud Computing"....

Tech jargon really shits me, and I've been in this game for a bloody long time. It causes more harm than good and I can't see the benefit of constantly creating new terms to describe pretty simple concepts and ideas. Anyone remember what TWAIN stands for??

(Don't mind me, I've been away from work for over a week and came back to a steaming, sticky shitpile to sort out, you know the ones that as soon as you touch something in the pile it sticks to something else and within minutes you have several smaller steaming shitpiles and a massive chunk of shit stuck to one hand, and then the phone rings... And I can't have a drink for another 2 hours or so!!) :angry:

 

[bum]

Hey bum, do you remember the Dot Com boom of the mid to late 90's? Every fucker who knew how to open Netscape ran off and pumped their millions into these new fandangled Website-thingys due to it being the next best thing about to take off and radically change the world.

Internet didn't change the world. Right.

Saw no reason to read the rest. Someone quote him if there's something I should address. Thanks.

 

[MarkBastard]

I don't suppose you catch public transport to work do you? I'm on the train every day and without fail I see a minimum of $5k worth of iPads on each carriage and I don't think that number is going to go down any time soon. At what point do you think these people are going to stop and wonder "Wait, why do I have this and a computer?"? I don't think it is all that far away.

What does that matter? It has nothing to do with Cloud Computing.

For the record iPads have small screens and the on screen keyboard is not ergonomic. They are not valid devices to use for real work, I know, because I've tried to use them in a pinch and it's not fun.

However you could argue you could get peripherals for them to handle that, hell even external monitors, but that's beside the point because I have absolutely nothing against that concept. I just have a problem with snake oil selling fuckwits ruining the industry I'm passionate about with their god damn buzzwords and bullshit.

 

[ShredMaster]

Internet didn't change the world. Right.

Saw no reason to read the rest. Someone quote him if there's something I should address. Thanks.

Ahh, selective reading. Gotta love it mate!

I would never expect you to read the rest but you could have at least read the rest of the paragraph you quoted, you wouldn't seem like such a twit in your response if you read at least that much...