MJ's Blonde Lager Dramas

[azztech]

Hello all,

First time brewer here and N00b-extraordinaire..

I received a MJ's Blonde Lager kit with my first brew kit and made the wort the first night.

I went out the next day and grabbed a Stone & Wood Garden Ale clone (extract) and whipped this one up the second day.

Now bottled and almost ready, I got impatient and cracked a bottle of the blonde lager last night - tastes awful... Really sweet and kinda fruity/tangy. I cracked a 2nd to be sure - same.

After much reading, I'm thinking it's esters? But if you go through the below procedure, I can't quite tell why...

• Followed instructions on pack
• Washed and sanitised everything, twice
• Stored in 30L run of the mill fermenter with airlock etc
• yeast pitched at 24c (yeast with kit)
• Stored in chest freezer (sanitised) with external temp control
• 1st day in freezer 24c (thermostat set for 20c but wasn't getting the fermenter down enough)
• 2-9th day @ 20c
• Racked off to (sanitised) bottling bucket and bottled on the 10th day in stubbies (washed and sanitised with proper tree and tree-top bottle san'er)
• Last nights taste test was at 10 days in the bottle and one night in the fridge
• Can't remember SG readings (at work) but they worked out at 5%ABV and were as expected judging from numbers found online

A couple of other notes:

• I didn't taste the original blonde lager hydrometer sample but I did taste the 5-day and final samples and the taste was there then
• My Stone & Wood samples all tasted great but was boiled the 2nd day so always fermented @ 20c when I had got the freezer temp sorted
• I'm currently brewing 2x lagers with proper larger yeast @ 12c and another kit ale with grain and hop additions @ 20c and they also taste alright from the original hydrometer samples

My question is, is this likely to be esters? and if so, will the yeast go back and clean these up after carbing if I leave them a few weeks? or is it just a dead loss and down the drain..

 

[King Panda]

I did the same recipe in much the same manner as you for my first brew just after Christmas.

I drank one after 11 days in the bottle and it wasn't very good. Since then I have had a few more including one last night (4 weeks after bottling) and it is much improved from the initial tasting.

If I was you I'd give it another go after more bottle conditioning. I don't think it's ever going to be exceptional but right now it's not too bad. It kind of reminds me of Carlton Mid.

 

[azztech]

I did the same recipe in much the same manner as you for my first brew just after Christmas.

I drank one after 11 days in the bottle and it wasn't very good. Since then I have had a few more including one last night (4 weeks after bottling) and it is much improved from the initial tasting.

If I was you I'd give it another go after more bottle conditioning. I don't think it's ever going to be exceptional but right now it's not too bad. It kind of reminds me of Carlton Mid.

Great info, thank you

 

[HBHB]

What yeast?

Seriously - Good yeast makes good beer. Great yeast makes great beer when it's treated right.

If you're going to go to the effort (rightly so) to go temperature controlled fermentation, spend a few cents a glass more on great yeast and ferment in the right temperature range.
The Blonde Lager in the Tradition series is actually a very clean pale blonde. Makes a great base for Blonde Ales, but can make a solid beer when done as a lager as well....clean as a whistle if it's done down cold

If going to go down the lager track, do as you are with the second brew -I'd suggest using the Blonde Kit with 500g Dextrose and 500g Light Dry Malt or better still 500g Light Dry Malt along with 500g Wheat malt extract and ferment it out on 2 packs of Mangrove Jacks M84 at 12 Degrees C for about 10 days before bumping the temp to 16/17 deg C until finished. If you like hoppy styles, then is the time to add some dry hops for about 4-5 days, Then crash chill to 2 deg C for 2 days, add finings and 2 days later, bottle it.

A Lager should be cold stored for a period of time. WIth that in mind, bottle as normal, allow say 10 days for carbonation to sort itself out and then shift them to the fridge for a month cold, unmolested and unopened. The cold storage time is important with lagers for the yeast to sort out other flavours that have developed during fermentation.

Trying to judge a bottled "lager" brewed at 20 Degrees and a few days old in the bottle isn't going to lead to anything good.

Enjoy the journey.

 

[pablo_h]

May just be off flavours from it's secondary "carbing/priming" fermentation, or oxidization after bottling. What temp are you bottle conditioning at? Did you fill the bottles up to the top (if using a "wand") and not shake them at all?
If any of those are at fault, the beer may improve still though it will never be great. It just will take a couple more weeks at 18-20C and a week at cooler temps...

 

[azztech]

What yeast?

Seriously - Good yeast makes good beer. Great yeast makes great beer when it's treated right.

If you're going to go to the effort (rightly so) to go temperature controlled fermentation, spend a few cents a glass more on great yeast and ferment in the right temperature range.
The Blonde Lager in the Tradition series is actually a very clean pale blonde. Makes a great base for Blonde Ales, but can make a solid beer when done as a lager as well....clean as a whistle if it's done down cold

If going to go down the lager track, do as you are with the second brew -I'd suggest using the Blonde Kit with 500g Dextrose and 500g Light Dry Malt or better still 500g Light Dry Malt along with 500g Wheat malt extract and ferment it out on 2 packs of Mangrove Jacks M84 at 12 Degrees C for about 10 days before bumping the temp to 16/17 deg C until finished. If you like hoppy styles, then is the time to add some dry hops for about 4-5 days, Then crash chill to 2 deg C for 2 days, add finings and 2 days later, bottle it.

A Lager should be cold stored for a period of time. WIth that in mind, bottle as normal, allow say 10 days for carbonation to sort itself out and then shift them to the fridge for a month cold, unmolested and unopened. The cold storage time is important with lagers for the yeast to sort out other flavours that have developed during fermentation.

Trying to judge a bottled "lager" brewed at 20 Degrees and a few days old in the bottle isn't going to lead to anything good.

Enjoy the journey.

Just the yeast that came with the kit (ale yeast). I understand the importance of yeast and in successive brews I've used a good targeted yeast, but given this was my first brew I just went with the basics.

As it turns out, I have given it a few more days and cracked another bottle and it's actually getting better (now drinkable). I suspect the yeast is cleaning up the byproducts in the bottle.

I should have known from what I've read that it always gets better with time (well, almost always)...

May just be off flavours from it's secondary "carbing/priming" fermentation, or oxidization after bottling. What temp are you bottle conditioning at? Did you fill the bottles up to the top (if using a "wand") and not shake them at all?
If any of those are at fault, the beer may improve still though it will never be great. It just will take a couple more weeks at 18-20C and a week at cooler temps...

Bottle conditioning at ~24c (room temp in my pantry). Racked from primary to bottling bucket with auto-siphon and long hose (to not splash and oxidize) and then from the racking bucket to the bottle via blue bottler.

Given the taste was there during primary I'm thinking it was just esters. In any case it's improved vastly over a few days and will probably be alright in another week or so.

 

[pablo_h]

Yeah, I missed the part where you said these flavours were there in the primary.
Different issue than what I normally get, great tasting from the fermenter, and absolutely awful tasting after bottling for a few weeks. I'm improving that by bottle fermenting/conditioning in eskies, as room temp here is over 30C. That means in summer in order for best fit in eskies I have to use the 740/750ml brown PET bottles exclusively (and be constantly freezing old milk and juice bottles in rotation.)