Mini Keg Discussion / Mods / Show Off - Dedicated Thread

[RdeVjun]

That's interesting phildo.

These suppliers might be quite interested to hear that.
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-library-beer-cleaning-and-sanitising-for-brewers
http://homebrewsuppliesandingredients.com.au/100-Pure-Sodium-Percarbonate-1kg.html
https://brewerschoice.com.au/sanitisers-and-cleaners/

And these brewers too maybe
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/50460-sodium-percarbonate-how-long/

Take home is that its probably nonsense, wouldn't be the first MSDS to be so. Are you sure its the correct MSDS, not for some other product perhaps?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

 

[LiquidGold]

Finally put beer in my mini last weekend, after reading this thread and hearing all the issues I was hoping I got lucky. Beer tasted fine while drinking the keg although I didn't even bother testing out the mini reg. Was about to pour out the dregs when I thought I should check the colour and this is what came out. Beer on the right is from same batch but kept in large keg.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the *****, or the retailers are importing the *****, or is there someone importing the ***** to sell on the ***** to the retailers ?

 

[Batz]

So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the *****, or the retailers are importing the *****, or is there someone importing the ***** to sell on the ***** to the retailers ?

Question does need to be asked. What's the story??

 

[Parks]

Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

Aluminium is very reactive to it too.

I've got a 10L stainless pot which has aluminium rivets in the handles which I regularly soak stuff in, and once I filled it past the rivets and they got heavily pitted very quickly.

 

[Zorco]

So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the *****, or the retailers are importing the *****, or is there someone importing the ***** to sell on the ***** to the retailers ?

Calm down WEAL,

 

[Zorco]

If a manufacturing fault results in a form of corrosion (the hypothesis) then it would be unreasonable to assume that there are not others.

I would still like to hear from Husky if he has a chance and/or wants to comment.

I spoke with Mark from ATHB this arvo and he had no problems replacing.

I've got three 5L tanks here, I'll do up some tests.

Sanitiser
NaPerc
NaMetSilicate

 

[Zorco]

Finally put beer in my mini last weekend, after reading this thread and hearing all the issues I was hoping I got lucky. Beer tasted fine while drinking the keg although I didn't even bother testing out the mini reg. Was about to pour out the dregs when I thought I should check the colour and this is what came out. Beer on the right is from same batch but kept in large keg.

Glad you posted this. To me it looks the same as Peteru's result.

Would you mind inspecting the neck-cone weld and 'fingering' the inside surface?

 

[trhr]

I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.

Going back to 9L party kegs.

 

[LiquidGold]

I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.

 

[LiquidGold]

Also the keg was stored upright while dispensing and the dregs probly spent a few days at ambient temp before I poured them out and noticed the colour.

 

[Jack of all biers]

From what I have read kegs are called for a thorough cleaning and passivising before use, like with Grainfather, BM etc new products do require a clean to be rid of the oils and such from the manufacturing, maybe the two sales (BB & BK)were from different manufacturers looking like the Bulk Buy's have been a hit and miss with the purchasers.
Just glad I didn't pull the trigger on my purchase after reading all the problems encountered.

From the previous thread.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82943-keg-king-new-corny-kegs-metallic-taste/

Sigh. Please go back and look at the first photo in post #604. That is the result of acid washing a sugared weld without first grinding it smooth. The area around that ugly weld is pock marked with corrosion. Why? Because of 'intergranular corrosion' or the breaking apart of the metal around the weld. This then encourages ongoing pitting corrosion as can be seen in that image. That orange discolouration is rust. Passivation of a sugared weld alone will result in this type of thing happening. It leaves a rough surface that invites further corrosion. Bugger it, don't go back here is the picture again.

EDIT - what is happening is in the high heat of the poor weld, the chromium is being striped from the iron to form Chromium carbide, which weakens the protection of the iron in that area, which causes this breaking apart and corrosion in that area.

I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.

Don't forget to check the weld around the top circumference of the keg also. Harder to get to see or feel, but I plan on using a small mirror on the end of a stick (they make them but blue tacking a small mirror to a stick will work and use a mini torch or reading light for light. If you see anything like the pictures posted above or below, then you know where the dark gritty crap came from. (Gritty texture is exactly what I would expect from a solution containing dissolved metal carbides (burnt weld material). All of that crystallized weld will slowly come away with acid and form a rough textured surface as you described.

 

[All Things Homebrew]

Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud)

sounds like you have one of the faulty regulators from bulk buy 2, I can send out a replacement from the new and improved batch.

If there is obvious weld issues with a pressurized vessel then it is a defect and you SHOULD contact the retailer and have it returned as such.

All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected.

Yep, anyone that is having this issue with the mini kegs please contact me to arrange a replacement.

Thanks for helping pin point the problem jack.

I did a simple finger test today. Stuck my finger inside the minikeg near the neck weld. I gently rubbed my finger against the side that seems to have good welding and it came out clean. I repeated the same thing on the side that has the black crevice. My finger came out with a black line on it. I repeated the same exercise with a clean white tissue. Again, one side comes out clean, the other side leaves a black metallic looking mark on the tissue.

I think that we are narrowing down the possible source of the issue, mainly thanks to Jack of all biers doing the research - thanks!

This is definitely not cool and sorry that this has happened, I think the best thing to do will be send you out a replacement, by the photos and details you have already spoken about is enough to warrant a replacement. If you have the tools to cut the thing open please do and post some photos, if you cant then send it back to me and ill cut it open to inspect.

Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud)

sounds like you have one of the faulty regulators from bulk buy 2, I can send out a replacement from the new and improved batch.

If there is obvious weld issues with a pressurized vessel then it is a defect and you SHOULD contact the retailer and have it returned as such.

All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected.

Yep, anyone that is having this issue with the mini kegs please contact me to arrange a replacement.

I did a simple finger test today. Stuck my finger inside the minikeg near the neck weld. I gently rubbed my finger against the side that seems to have good welding and it came out clean. I repeated the same thing on the side that has the black crevice. My finger came out with a black line on it. I repeated the same exercise with a clean white tissue. Again, one side comes out clean, the other side leaves a black metallic looking mark on the tissue.

I think that we are narrowing down the possible source of the issue, mainly thanks to Jack of all biers doing the research - thanks!

this is definitely not cool and sorry that this has happened, and think the best thing to do will be send you out a replacement, by the photos and details you have already spoken about is enough to warrant a replacement. if you have the tools to cut the thing open please do and post some photos, if you cant send it back to me and ill cut it open to inspect.

Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg

thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.

I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.

Going back to 9L party kegs.

Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?

 

[All Things Homebrew]

Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg

thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.

I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.

Going back to 9L party kegs.

Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?

I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.

what happens if you do the same rice water test the Peteru? it sound like you have the same issue, and will send out a replacement if needed.

Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg

thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.

I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.

Going back to 9L party kegs.

Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?

I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.

what happens if you do the same rice water test the Peteru? it sound like you have the same issue, and will send out a replacement if needed.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Thanks for helping pin point the problem jack.

No worries. Jack of all trades, master of none, so I could be wrong, but I can't believe the steel is the cause.

Good on you for coming on and addressing your customers. Another good retailer being proactive, it's a good sign.

 

[All Things Homebrew]

Yeh it is disappointing that it seems to be the steel/welds thats the cause. and will be chasing it up with the manufacturer, thankfully for most it isn't an issue, but extremely unlucky for a couple with the issue, and those ones need to be replaced.

 

[phildo]

I'm highly reactive to metal

Gold!

 

[phildo]

That's interesting phildo.

These suppliers might be quite interested to hear that.
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-library-beer-cleaning-and-sanitising-for-brewers
http://homebrewsuppliesandingredients.com.au/100-Pure-Sodium-Percarbonate-1kg.html
https://brewerschoice.com.au/sanitisers-and-cleaners/

And these brewers too maybe
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/50460-sodium-percarbonate-how-long/

Take home is that its probably nonsense, wouldn't be the first MSDS to be so. Are you sure its the correct MSDS, not for some other product perhaps?

What's to take home mate? Sodium percarbonate is sodium percarbonate. The question should be concentration and contact Time. I wasn't saying that it's the wrong thing to do to allow sodium percarbonate to come into contact with stainless steel just sharing my experience and understanding in this Discussion

 

[phildo]

Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

^ this is an example of an intelligent and constructive response. I really appreciate the focus on sharing information for the betterment of our community.