Milling Rice To Add To Mash

[SAllan]

Have been reading about adding cooked rice to mash etc. Any reason can't mill the rice and add to mash and leaving for longer conversion to achieve same result. It's a lot less fuss.
Regards,
Steve Allan
Toodyay W.A.

 

[Bribie G]

The rice needs to be gelatinised first to give the enzymes access to the starches. A very fine flour may do the trick, or mill and give it a short boil.

 

[SAllan]

Respect to the answer Bribie G but has anyone tried? Just wondering why the milled rice wouldn't cook and and gelatinise in the longer conversion period or does it have to be done at certain temp. I Batch sparge & rinse all my low alcohol brews at 90C and have had good result's. My question is due to all my brews having been ales up until now and have just tried this method in a Lite Lager recipe I made(with extra hops of course!!).
Regards
Steve

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its the same as using oats. You need to geletanise to allow the enzymes from the malted barley to convert the starches.

Rice wont add much....its rather boring stuff.

 

[peas_and_corn]

When you mash, the mash temp gelatnises the starches (pretty much unpacks it) so the enzymes can get to it. The gelatinization temperature for rice is much higher, around the 90c mark so at standard mashing temp the enzymes simply won't be able to access the starch. If you mash at rice gelatinization temps you will denature the enzymes. So you have to cook it first.

 

[Donske]

When you mash, the mash temp gelatnises the starches (pretty much unpacks it) so the enzymes can get to it. The gelatinization temperature for rice is much higher, around the 90c mark so at standard mashing temp the enzymes simply won't be able to access the starch. If you mash at rice gelatinization temps you will denature the enzymes. So you have to cook it first.

So it's as simple as cooking the rice then adding to the main mash? Also, when using rice do you work on cooked weight or dry weight when working out recipes?

Thinking of brewing a fizzy yellow water type beverage for those that don't like beer with flavour.

 

[slcmorro]

Cook it on a low heat for an hour. It'll turn into a lumpy sticky consistency. Throw that it the mash and bang, jobs done.

 

[///]

As above, no need to mill. just gelatinise it first (ie cook it). If you can get rice flakes they are usually steamed and rolled and therefore the job is done.

Scotty

 

[vortex]

Respect to the answer Bribie G but has anyone tried? Just wondering why the milled rice wouldn't cook and and gelatinise in the longer conversion period or does it have to be done at certain temp.

It's well documented in professional brewing texts that rice requires a cereal mash so that the starches are accessible by enzymes. Gelatenisation of rice starch happens at a higher temp than your barley mash, so you need to do it as a separate step from the mash itself.

I Batch sparge & rinse all my low alcohol brews at 90C and have had good result's.

Sparge/Mashout at 90c will denature the amylase enzymes, meaning that if you don't do a cereal mash on the rice prior to the regular mash, the rice starch won't be accessible by enzymes at the barley mash temp - and then when you hit 90c, all the enzymes will be denatured prior to converting the rice starch; leaving the gelatinised starch in the wort, unconverted.

You need to do a cereal mash to use normal rice. No way past that (but honestly a simple German Pils would be a much nicer first lager IMO).

 

[peas_and_corn]

So it's as simple as cooking the rice then adding to the main mash? Also, when using rice do you work on cooked weight or dry weight when working out recipes?

Thinking of brewing a fizzy yellow water type beverage for those that don't like beer with flavour.

I've gone for dry weight, it's what I've seen in hb recipes

 

[SAllan]

Have read all your post's. Thanks for the learning curve. Will cook rice for next brew.

 

[mckenry]

If you can get rice flakes they are usually steamed and rolled and therefore the job is done.

Scotty

This is the simplest way. In the mash with the grains, one step. no extra cleanup.

 

[Bribie G]

Rice flakes cost four times normal rice, a point to take on board.

In the USA where they have been using rice for over a century, not as a cost saver but as a method of actually getting a beer from their "inferior" six row barleys, the rice or maize is referred to as "cooker mash".

Rice makes a really delicate and "fresh" lager, some styles you don't want all malt - for example many of the Asian lagers such as Bia Hoi.

 

[black_labb]

It's well documented in professional brewing texts that rice requires a cereal mash so that the starches are accessible by enzymes. Gelatenisation of rice starch happens at a higher temp than your barley mash, so you need to do it as a separate step from the mash itself.


Sparge/Mashout at 90c will denature the amylase enzymes, meaning that if you don't do a cereal mash on the rice prior to the regular mash, the rice starch won't be accessible by enzymes at the barley mash temp - and then when you hit 90c, all the enzymes will be denatured prior to converting the rice starch; leaving the gelatinised starch in the wort, unconverted.

You need to do a cereal mash to use normal rice. No way past that (but honestly a simple German Pils would be a much nicer first lager IMO).

I think you are confusing a cereal mash and gelatinisation. A cereal mash is a mash at higher temps (low 70's) to favour the break down the starches into long chain sugars in a mash with large proportions of starch based adjuncts (cereals) and some malted grain to provide the aplha amylase. This is done after gelatinisation of the cereals if there are any cereals that have a gelatinisation temp above the cereal mash stage. A cereal mash is an additional stage before the main mash where all of the adjuncts and some of the malt is used. The rest of the malt is added in the normal mash. It is usually used if they are using large proportions of cereal adjuncts and mashing at low temperatures to favour beta amylase for a dry beer (the low mash temp may not efficiently break down all the starches if they had not done a cereal mash before).

If gelatinised (cooked) rice or other cereal adjuncts can be used in the main mash without a cereal mash if the conditions are suitable, which is usually the case. I've only heard of cereal mashes used in American Malt Liquor which has a very small percentage of malt and a lot of maize, rice and whatever else and mashed to be as dry and alcoholic as possible. Some rice lagers may do a cereal mash as well but I'm not sure. I don't mean rice lagers as in lagers with rice, I mean lagers that are primarily rice.


I could be wrong but that is my understanding of it.

 

[SAllan]

Guy's your getting a bit past my intelligence level now but all I was trying to do was make a light lager with correct method(and maybe easier). I must point out that I also was way out of style because I have increased the hops as I am tring to make a low alochol lager with plenty of flavour. Have so far done mostly Ordinary Bitters but find in our hot climate they are some times not refreshing? Had the Relatives over for Xmas and there drinking Carona's which to me are the style but pretty devoid of flavour!! I am not going to try and make Carona!!(don't even know if I spell it right) Took note of an earlier comment in the post about Pilsner. Maybe you guy's can give me some good advice on making a low alcohol version. Cheers.

 

[Bribie G]

As black labb says, you need to gelatinise the rice first and either do a separate mash with the rice at 72 degrees, if you are using a lot of it, otherwise put it in the main mash.

Low alcohol version I'd use less rice but mash a bit higher, say around 68 degrees. This will attenuate to give less alcohol but you'll still get the grain flavour from the malt. For "straight" Corona I would look at about a third of your dry weight to come from the rice to give a low bodied beer that's still got a kick.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

SAllen all good mate. Dont be scared, we all started at your level.

Making beer is about proportions ( ratios )

Making low alc beers is actually a real challenge. A common trap is brewers can over hop low alc beers. A typical lager might have a ratio of SG:IBu of 1:0.8 ie SG 1050 : IBu 40 ( remove the first 2 units of your SG reading) this gives a beer roughly 4.5%alc

So if you want to brew a low 3% beer then drop the amount of hops to give a bittering of about 28 ibu

And dont forget to ask lots of questions.

 

[SAllan]

Cheers Guy's,
Here's my recipe(the rice will have done nothing as I just milled it and added to the mash)
Batch 41.6ltr 90min Boil
Simpson Marris Otter 6.77kg(incorrect grain I know)
1kg Rice
10gr Centennial 1st Wort
20gr Horizon 60min
10gr Cascade 1min
SG read 1.035
Beersmith Calculated 19.6 IBU'S
Fermentation 3 weeks @ 10C + 1 week @ 14C
Will let you know how it tastes!!