Mash Ph

[Chris]

Hi,

I have been AG for a while and have recently started to try and improve my mash with mineral additions in the strike/mash water, this has worked well but I would like to also be able to measure my mash ph for future twiddling. I was wondering what people have done to over come this?

I was thinking along the lines of litmus paper (PH meter probably out of the question).

Cheers

Chris

 

[Ash in Perth]

Im on break right now but i study chemistry at uni. Ill have a look around for suitable litmus paper when i go back. I tihnk what we would need would have a colour change at about pH 5.5-6 ish. below this it would turn red, meaning the pH is close enoguh to the perfect mashing range. If i find something suitable i will let every one know where they might be able to get hold of some. They would be very simple and cheap.

I tihnk pH meters are a bit pointless for homebrewing unless you have enough money and time to spend on all the gadgets and their maintanance.

 

[lou]

Personally I think you are better off gettng your sparge/strike water water right and let the mash take care of itself. Where do you live chris - you initial water profile makes all the difference - I'm in Brissy - tap water is about pH 8 and full of calcium - I check my pH with a cheap indicator solution with test jar that I bought at a hydroponics shop. This is the most cost effective solution I have found - range is perfect for HB- range is from pH 8 - 5. I can test the mash with it too if I am doing a light coloured beer - dark and you can't tell what colour it is but with dark beers/grains they drop the ph anyway so no worries

I add phos acid (about 5mls per35~ L) and this takes my water to pH 6. The grain then drops it into the exact desired range for the mash ~ pH 5.5. Although once I get to about 1.020 it gets a bit tannic - so maybe a bit more acid to keep things good - but I'm fine with low efficinecy - very smooth beers :beerbang:

lou

 

[Trent]

Lou
Do you add the phos acid to all your water, or just to your sparge water? I have 7.2pH water with not alot of any mineral in it (hardness 48ppm and alkalinity 40ppm), I think that sodium is the most predominate mineral from memory at about 15ppm. Everything else is less than 10ppm. I am gonna be brewing a brown ale on thurs, I have a mate that is very good at chemistry that is gonna get back to me on my water treatment necessities, but I may end up brewing before he does. I also have some calcium carbonate, but not sure if I need this either. And Ash, would love to find out wher eto get some good pH papers.
All the best
Trent

 

[chillamacgilla73]

I throw ~ 1 teaspoon of Citric acid granules into 19l of carbon filtered water for my partials..should probably check the pH but have not had any probs as yet. I'd imagine pH is more critical for AG.

If I think back to Analytical & Food Chemistry at uni.........I remember that Beetroot juice is a pH indicator...thats right just check the avatar, I won't be buying a pH meter of fancy litmus paper, off to the vege patch!

http://www.ratlab.co.uk/phwhy.htm

 

[crozdog]

I used to use ph test strips which measured from pH 1 - 14 for my fish tank. I haven't reached the stage of testing my water or mash yet, I'm just enjoying making & consuming great beer. :chug: Maybe one day....

LTPUNIPH UNI INDICATOR PAPER pH1-14 W/CHART 8 BOOKS OF 25=200/VIAL are
available from Livingstone (here) for $8.80 inc GST. You need to add freight.

hope that helps.

Beers

Crozdog

 

[Peter Wadey]

Chris,

If you are going to use test strips you would be best to get some narrowband ones.
Don't bother with wideband ones. Too much guess work.

I have been using the the Macherey-Nagel Duotest 3.5 - 6.8, with the following graduations,

3.53.84.14.44.75.05.35.65.96.26.56.8

for the last 4+ yrs. Simple & effective, with pts right where you want them.


A supplier link is supplied below:

http://www.aquaspex.com.au/products/pHpapers/duotest.html

Rgds,
Peter

 

[Ash in Perth]

they look perfect peter. cheers. any idea of cost?

 

[Peter Wadey]

they look perfect peter. cheers. any idea of cost?

Ash in Perth
Don't know what this supplier sells at, but there is a full pricelist available on the website.

Pete

 

[Ash in Perth]

sorry i should have looked around a bit harder. for any one else it is here:
http://www.aquaspex.com.au/prices/pHPapers.pdf

 

[Ross]

He's currently out of stock of the ones Peter recommended & won't have for a couple of months. However, there are quite a few different types on the site & ones you can use on dark liquids as well. He's mailing me off some samples today for trials - So I'll report back on my findings, recommendations.
I'll be stocking which ever I find to be the best.

Cheers Ross

 

[lou]

Do you add the phos acid to all your water, or just to your sparge water? I have 7.2pH water with not alot of any mineral in it (hardness 48ppm and alkalinity 40ppm), I think that sodium is the most predominate mineral from memory at about 15ppm. Everything else is less than 10ppm. I am gonna be brewing a brown ale on thurs, I have a mate that is very good at chemistry that is gonna get back to me on my water treatment necessities, but I may end up brewing before he does. I also have some calcium carbonate, but not sure if I need this either.

Yep I add the phos to all my water -Ihave a 40L urn and heat mash and sparge water together - low minerals means you probably won't have to add much - the calcium buffers the pH a bit.

I would look into the pH tester I found - You only use 1-2 drops of the solution every test. I have done heaps
and only used a tiny bit it up. Easy to get a hold of too.

lou

 

[fraser_john]

Jaycar has QM1670, its a $60 digital PH meter! Works a treat.

Here are the details....

A simple and accurate device for checking pH levels in water. The unit is equally valuable for keeping your fish tank at the proper pH level for optimum fish health or checking your swimming pool for the right balance. The meter is simple to use and the large liquid crystal display gives clear and precise readings that are much more accurate than messy chemicals. The unit has extendable probe that can
be adjusted to suit each application. The meter is supplied with a 9 volt battery, a bottle of pH 7.0 buffer solution and calibration tool.



- Size 40(W) x 158(H) x 34(D)mm
- 1 - 14 pH range / 0.1 pH resolution
- +/- 0.2 pH accuracy
- 0 - 50C operating temperature
- 120g weight
- Replacement PH solution sold separately Cat QM-1671

 

[Chris]

Great, thanks guys.

Pete the strips look perfect especially as im in adelaide. pity theyre out of stock for the next few months. I will also look into the Livingstone papers.

 

[jayse]

I have box of 5-10 range strips that work pretty dandy, thought about a PH meter at one time or another but seriously think money could be much more wisely spent after finding the strips work great. The box of strips will last years and easy to use, easy to read.
The strips I have are labeled neutralift 5-10 and have the word merck in big letters I gather that may be the brand anyway I'am pretty damn happy with the buggers.


Anyway I'am in the strip club.
Jayse

 

[thunderleg]

I scored a new Hanna Instruments pH meter off ebay for about $35.

 

[Ross]

He's currently out of stock of the ones Peter recommended & won't have for a couple of months. However, there are quite a few different types on the site & ones you can use on dark liquids as well. He's mailing me off some samples today for trials - So I'll report back on my findings, recommendations.
I'll be stocking which ever I find to be the best.

Ok - Thanks to Peter Wadey & after testing several different types of PH paper, I've come up with the following 2 as being the most useful IMO to homebrewers - I don't feel there's a need to start a seperate retail thread...

1) Duotest - double zone indicator papers with colour chart - Range 5.0 to 8.0 (0.3 increments)

These papers are impregnated indicator papers with greater accuracy and improved ease of reading. Two complimentary indicator zones on one strip - separated by a white centre band - guarantee clear colour diffentiation and a more accurate estimation of intermediate pH values. The white centre band is hydrophobic and prevents that colours of the two indicator zones run into one another.
Pack size: reel 5 m x 10 mm with colour chart.

2) Pehanon for coloured solutions - Range 5.2 to 6.8 (0.3 increments)

These are special products for determination of pH in coloured solutions. The special feature of these papers is that the indicator fields and the colour scale are joined on one strip. The strip has to be fully immersed in the sample. If the solution is coloured, the colour shift works the same way on the indicator as on the scale, thus compensating for it.
Packs of 20 or 50 strips 11 mm x 100 mm.

Both are available through CraftBrewer.

Cheers Ross

 

[Tseay]

Just on the subject of PH meters. Does anyone have any info/experience on how their accuracy is affected when operating above the 50C limit eg 60-75 C ?

 

[crells]

Some meters use a probe that will 'pop' if you insert it in high temps (eg. sparge temps)

 

[beers]

Has anyone tried the 5star chemicals 5.2 buffer?