Mangrove Jack's Burton Union M79

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I popped this in the 'general' thread for all Mangrove Jacks yeasts, but given it concerns the M79, it's worth popping in here too.

I entered (as stated above) my mild into the TSHBC as a bitter. I expected to drop a few points, but more for laughs and keep the comp numbers up.

It got a bronze. So lag time isn't an issue. I rehydrated, but still got some lag, but not what has been typical of most.

I also made an RIS with the yeast leftover from the mild. I took a 600ml coke bottle from the bottom of the fermenter through the tap, let it settle in the fridge and then poured off the beer on top and chucked in the yeast, leaving the trub in the bottom of the bottle. It also had to work with the limitations of my system to get 2 x 15L lots of high grav beer* (see the two pot stovetop method thread). So everything that could have gone wrong was there.

It got a gold.

They're obviously decent yeasts, even with the 'lag' - if it bothers you, rehydrate. I did and it worked.

*Incidentally the 'other' beer on the day was a bronze and I was informed by the judges that if it had been entered in as an AIPA not an IIPA, it'd have been a gold as well.

 

[klangers]

Used this yeast twice on the same recipe (dry pitched). End result has been delicious both times. Both took over 48 hours to show visible krausen on a 1050 OG wort with good aeration and stable temps.

After occurring twice, despite the directions on the packet, I've concluded that rehydration is key to a decent start on these yeasts.

Or just be patient.

 

[DeGarre]

Dry-pitched 2 packets 7 days ago into 1094°, quick to start, krausen has made a big mess, hasn't moved much in 2 days, is now at 1048°, 6% abv, 50% attenuation.

Doesn't look good although the plan was to keep it in the FV for at least 3 weeks. Airlock still has some activity.

I want to avoid what happened last time with this yeast, all activity had stopped, bottled 1058° at 1016° and 5.5% abv, fermented in the bottle and ended up at 6.4% duvel-like gushers.

 

[kaiserben]

I dry pitched 1 packet M79 into an 8L of OG 1.042.

Steady temp of around 20C. Had tell-tale signs of krausen when I next checked - after about 20 hours.

So far so good. Hoping to avoid the overly fruity esters described by others.

 

[DeGarre]

Thats me done with Burton Union yeast, never again. Used it 2 times, on both occasions problems.

Re-pitched after 17 days with Nottingham to move this below 1.039 (started at 1.094).

 

[Bribie G]

I've got a couple of packets on the way.

Is everybody Burtonising their water with magnesium sulphate and calcium sulphate?

Also, in common with Yorkshire Square yeasts it would probably benefit from extra oxygen for the first couple of days by thrashing the krausen back into the beer, the idea of the Burton Union system being to expose the yeast to extra oxygen during the vigorous part of the fermentation by letting the krausen rise into a trough then letting the wort run back into the casks.



I'll be doing both.

 

[seamad]

Thats me done with Burton Union yeast, never again. Used it 2 times, on both occasions problems.

Re-pitched after 17 days with Nottingham to move this below 1.039 (started at 1.094).

I'm not having a go at you DeGarre but I've seen a lot of posts similar and I wonder whether it's the yeasts fault or the brewers.
I mainly use liquid yeasts but have used 3 of the MG yeasts, not the Burton though, with no problem.
I use yeastcalc to work out my pitching rates, and if I had 20L of 1.094 I would need about 450 billion yeast cells. Mangrove Jack claim a minimum of 5 billion cfu ( or cells) per gram, which means you'd need 90 grams or 9 packets if only the minimum amount of cells were viable. Most agree that the real figure is up to 20 billion cells per gram, or 22.5g minimum for a 20l batch, so at least 2 packets, and I'm not even going to get into the rehydration caper here either.As nothing is perfect then you'd want at least 3 packs to account for viability issues. MJ reckons you would need 2 packs for a high gravity brew but it's pretty vague advice.
The other thing to consider with such a high gravity brew is the need for some pure O2 to get things started as well.
As I've said I haven't used the Burton but have used 3 others ( and I think there have been complaints about some other MJ yeasts ) and pitched at 1g/L with O2 injection and had no problems ( hope ol murph didn't hear that )

 

[DeGarre]

No probs seamad, I treat all my dry yeasts the same, British Ale from Mangrove was a treat, used it a few times, this Burton bugger I am not so lucky with,
this particular brew I dry-pitched 2 packets.

I need a no-nonsense sturdy dry yeast that is care-free, and Burton Bugger is the first one I've ever had problems with. Perhaps it needs some special attention and love that I am not able to give it, yeasts like s04, Notty, US05 etc on the other hand will take a good rogering without any complaint.

 

[Bribie G]

I've got a few Coopers yeasts from under the lids I can send you.

ed:
The Mangrove Jacks series represents a number of different yeast strains that do indeed each require different treatment - not to mention attention and love - otherwise there would be no point in bringing out a range, as opposed to a "Mangrove Jacks Ale Yeast", which is more or less what Morgans and Coopers do for their kit yeasts.

I've bought the Burton yeast so I can treat it as if it's in a Burton Union system using the appropriate water salts with ingredients that are similar to what you would find in a Marstons ale. I wouldn't use it for a Northern Brown for example, which is why I've bought the Northern Brown yeast as well.

If you are looking for a bulletproof forgiving yeast then Coopers kit yeast or S04 should fit the bill if you are not looking for a particular yeast characteristic in your different ales.

And rehydrate otherwise, according to the Yeast Book you are killing up to half the yeast cells by dry pitching into wort, and if dry pitching into something like barley wine:

 

[TheWiggman]

I'm curious to know how you're going to set this up Bribie G. A quick scour of the WWW yielded https://byo.com/stories/item/351-build-a-burton-union-system-projects. There are other similar setups about.

The big difference I can see between the home and 'traditional' systems is the inclusion of an airlock. You say though that the system allows extra oxygen in which the yeast benefits from in the first few days. Do you plan to leave the blowoff vessel open to air for a few days then shut off or keep it as a closed system?

 

[Bribie G]

I'll just be doing my "Yorkshire Square" routine by thrashing air into the wort twice a day. Another thought is to do a double drop.
My garage is nowhere near clean enough to do open systems but I've considered making a little sort of clean room with poly sheeting on a frame.
Plus a filtered air source to create a small positive air to get rid of CO2 in the chamber. I've got a font snake blower that could work.

 

[mfeighan]

i have no problems with attenuation and flocculation with this yeast. I really didnt like the belgium esters it threw. Still a nice beer but not a pommy beer which i was planning

edit: rehydrated and it took between 24-48hrs to start

 

[kaiserben]

I dry pitched 1 packet M79 into an 8L of OG 1.042.

Steady temp of around 20C. Had tell-tale signs of krausen when I next checked - after about 20 hours.

So far so good. Hoping to avoid the overly fruity esters described by others.

Just quoting myself here because I've got follow-up feedback.

The above batch turned out great. However I can definitely taste those fruity esters (so will be looking at different yeasts soon).

In the meantime I repeated the above (1 packet M79 into 8L of OG ~1.042) in a second batch and there's now been 5 days with no activity. I took the FV for a drive today and rolled it around a bit (had to move it to diff location, and also hoping to get some activity in there).

I'm wondering whether to shake the bejesus out of it, again, for aeration? Is it okay to aerate as much as I like as long as it's before high krausen?

 

[kaiserben]

Forget what I wrote above about the second batch having no activity. I got around to taking a gravity reading and it's down to 1.016 (from 1.042) after 7 days.

No visible signs of a ferment besides trub.

 

[Mickcr250]

What temps do people recommend for this yeast? I did a double batch of the coopers pa clone from the data base on Friday and was going to do one cube with my recultured coopers yeast and the other with m79 since I have had a pack in the fridge for a wile. Only issue is I would usually ferment at 17-18 with coopers yeast and a little worried about the m79 not firing or falling asleep on me at that temp. Anyone gone this low with this yeast?

 

[Jkpentreath]

Just finished Jzs English IPA, 1pak into 15 lt rehydrated at og of 1048. Finish in four days at 1013. Fermented at 19. Dropped so clear by day 5. In the keg no tasting notes yet

 

[Mickcr250]

Temps ? Anyone?

 

[Jkpentreath]

I pitched at 16 c fermented at 19c. Chilled a week in . Kegged some bottled some. Some how a chunk of yeast lodged in the tap, fucked the keg transfer, so I stopped , sealed the keg up and chucked a few bottles down. Tried it last night , don't remember putting bananas in the mash?

 

[kaiserben]

All my M79 temps have fermented around to 19-20C mark. All gone off without a hitch. 3 batches now.

I can't see how 17-18C would pose a problem (I'd rather ferment at that temp TBH, to see if I could eliminate some of the fruity esters I'm getting).

 

[Mickcr250]

Thanks guys I will chuck them both in the fermenters tonight and will report back.