Making/desigining Recipes

[southcoastbrewer]

Hey all

i have been AG brewing quite some time now, and after following recipes on here, and using beersmith recipes, ive decided to try a do it yourself.

The question is, for you that do design your own, how do you decide which base malts to use and which additional malts to use. Im well aware of how to use beer smith and am aware of fact that yes it does describe the characteristics of each malt. Ive paid attention to alot of recipes over the last few days and have noticed most american pale ales use a marris otter pale as their base and add on that with cara etc to add colour, body etc.

Can you use british malts in american style ales and vice versa?

Does this come down to experience from brewing failed batches that you know hey dont use that particular malt again. itll make it taste like arse. try somthing else.. or that combination of hops didnt add the bitterness and taste i was looking for or i needed... ill use X next time? Following the guide bars to IBU OG FG etc is all well and good to create a beer, but deciding on the malt flavors and characteristics is another.. if you mix things that dont work its a ruined batch pretty much..

Southcoastbrewer

 

[Edak]

Personally I think it is about understanding your ingredients. Its a slow process of learning the flavours that you like and those that you don't like. Brew some smash beers, those are good for learning the flavours of hops and malts.
Most use ingredients that are regional, US hops and malt for US beers, UK for UK etc.

Experience, trial error, modify proven recipes slightly and see how you go. Don't just throw a bunch of random things together, you don't want to dump a batch.

 

[Edak]

I should add that I am not the most experienced of brewers by FAR! I have only something like 30 AG brews under my belt and will honestly day that I have barely scratched the surface.

I should add hat you should take notes where possible, make them detailed, get your partners opinion (women have a much better sense of taste and smell than us blokes). If you want to make an ESB then buy a few commercial beers, get the 'gist' of it and read the outlines, see if you can taste the profile, see if you can find recipes and then assemble your own puzzle.

Edit: autocorrect correct.

 

[ricardo]

I read an interview once with Shaun Hill of Hill Farmstead fame (voted best brewery in the world). He said that you need to understand how to brew the classics first such as designing a recipe for a classic robust porter instead of say a smoked vanilla chipotle porter.

He also said that when he first started out he would follow a recipe but alter it slightly such as using a different malt or hop to see how it alters the flavor profile

 

[Phoney]

1. Read the BJCP guideline for the style.
2. Google the style + recipe, then look at half a dozen other people's recipes. Jamil Zainasheff's recipes are always a great building block.
4. Make your own based on the above, with the ingredients that you have/can get.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

BJCP is a good start.

Knowing your ingredients. Find a base malt you like and will do a number of styles (for me it was Bairds Perle Ale Malt - which did some good British, American and Dark beers) that you prefer to drink.

Then build your grist on that - usually BJCP will help you with hints about ingredients.

Know your hops.

Choose the right yeast for the job.

Keep notes and tasting notes and tweak from there. Occasionally with enough thought, you'll go close to nailing it first time, but if not, you'll have some base to work from.

 

[warra48]

Agree with LRG 1.

For me, I now tend to use Munich 1 as my base malt for a lot of my beers, because I like body and malt in my beers. I know it's not for everyone, but it's what I like, and I brew to make what I like.
The same works for hops. I've worked out which hops I prefer, and tend to stick to them.

Now, if I was brewing a beer to enter into a competition, I'd have to go back to a more traditional recipe, just to fit it into the style guidelines. I haven't entered many competitions, so I rarely need to do that.

It's a learning process, and if you keep notes, you will eventually work out what works for you or where you need to make improvements or tweaks.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Designing Great Beers by R Daniels is a must have for creating your own recipies. He gives information about each style and what goes into them along withbittering ratios and colour. There are no recipies in the book, but thats the point of the book.

Once you have an idea about what a style should be it is actually rather easy to create your own.

 

[brewtas]

I read an interview once with Shaun Hill of Hill Farmstead fame (voted best brewery in the world). He said that you need to understand how to brew the classics first such as designing a recipe for a classic robust porter instead of say a smoked vanilla chipotle porter.

He also said that when he first started out he would follow a recipe but alter it slightly such as using a different malt or hop to see how it alters the flavor profile

This and lots of the advice above is really good although it does depend a bit on what you're wanting to achieve. What I'd add is that it's worth brewing single hop APAs/IPAs, SMaSH beers and beers that showcase a particular malt. That'll help you get to know ingredients more quickly which will in turn help you get more confident in writing recipes and knowing what to expect.

Some little things that I think would help get you going quickly:

• Keep your recipes simple to start with. Don't add 6 different malts to a beer because even if it turns out well, it's taught you very little about your ingredients. A complex grain bill doesn't necessarily mean a complex beer, simple is usually better.
• Work in percentages for malt and grams/litre for hops
• Keep detailed records of your brews and how they went, what you'd do next time
• Work to perfect a recipe: taste the beer make refinements and brew it again. Experiment with yeast, specialty grains, hops, base malt

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Some of my best beers where made with 3 grains and 3 hop additions ( sometimes using 3 diff hops ). Gives a complex but clean beer. When going for lots of different grains and hops it is really easy to get it wrong and end up with, at best, an ordinary beer.

Try starting with 3-4 grains and just vary the ratios. You will be suprised how different your beers will be just by doing that. You dont need every grain in the catalog. You just need a good base malt. Light and dark xtal, darker grain like choc, maybe some RB and some vienna/munich. You can make anything with those 6 grains.

 

[sponge]

1. Read the BJCP guideline for the style.
2. Google the style + recipe, then look at half a dozen other people's recipes. Jamil Zainasheff's recipes are always a great building block.
4. Make your own based on the above, with the ingredients that you have/can get.

3. Never miss any steps.

 

[TimT]

Yep: start with classic, simple recipes and vary from there.

Once you are familiar with all the traditional variations you get to know why different recipes have different ingredients and what variations you are able to make.

Same with all cooking, really

 

[fletcher]

my 2c

take a very simple pale ale, if you like pale ales, and tweak it from there. if you want to learn what malt/hop does what, you can change them up but try and do a very similar base recipe and add on from there. i'd steer clear of doing SMASH beers because they taste (most often in my opinion) very one-sided.

do a base of something like: pale malt at 95%, and a crystal malt to 5%, and then add your hops how you like it. use the same yeast and then just change your hops for a new batch. try two hops in combination and see their flavours. try three etc. for american pale ales and IPAs, it is more hop-focused so i wouldn't worry about changing the base grain too much but the more you make, the more you'll know what makes what and you can add and change this up too.

as others have said, look at common recipes and recommended recipes (BJCP too) and you'll start to see (as you have) what each grain ingredient does and why it is added. the sky is then the limit.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

And..

Use the same hop but vary the amount for different additions but keep your totall IBU.

Try this

80% base malt
10% munich
10% light xtal.

IBU:SG 0.8:1.0 ( roughly )

Pick say EKG and work out different hop schedules that wil give that 0.8 ( 35ibu:46sg)

You will learn how different addition levels will take a simple ESB to an APA using the same amount of hops, just used in a different way.

Yes its a simple way of doing it but does give you a very good method of tasting how a simple change can affect the way a beer tastes.

 

[southcoastbrewer]

Great guys thanks for all the ideas, ive started out with my fresh built 3 vessel setup and made a few pale ales as suggested and hit different hops, then today did 2 more and changed up some malts used cara malts etc in different amounts, only made 9L batches just in case.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Tip

Dont go overboard with xtal as it will make your beer very sweet.

 

[fattox]

I'm agreeing with several posters here - Ducatiboy Stu is 100% spot on about crystal or caramel malts, I personally try to keep them under 10% unless a recipe calls for more.Ultimately it depends on the beer style that you're aiming for - for example, an IPA (as you priobably know) doesn't need an overly high amount of malt flavour - I work at 90% base malts and 10% specialty, with 5% caramel for slight sweetness nd 5% dextrine/carafoam for head retention/head etc.

Also with Edak, about doing SMaSH beers. I've got a couple lined up when I have a free vessel, they're a great way to understand your base malts, and then you can work on them from there. For example, a base beer I have been working on is all Munich with some Citra hops, and previous SMASH was a Bohemian Pils with Saaz hopping alone - just pilsner with 5% carapils for head retention.

That's my 2 cents anyway, I'm not even as experienced as yourself with about 8 BIAB batches, but on the other hand my LHBS crew is pretty cluey in terms of grain bills etc. and can always point me in the right direction if my recipe is out or a certain specialty grain will impart too much of a cloying sweetness etc.

 

[Phoney]

Tip
Dont go overboard with xtal as it will make your beer very sweet.

I've tried a beer made with 50% crystal that fermented down to 1.006 with WY3711. Wasn't sweet at all. Was a weird beer though.

 

[thylacine]

Agree with LRG 1.

For me, I now tend to use Munich 1 as my base malt for a lot of my beers, because I like body and malt in my beers. I know it's not for everyone, but it's what I like, and I brew to make what I like.
The same works for hops. I've worked out which hops I prefer, and tend to stick to them.

Now, if I was brewing a beer to enter into a competition, I'd have to go back to a more traditional recipe, just to fit it into the style guidelines. I haven't entered many competitions, so I rarely need to do that.

It's a learning process, and if you keep notes, you will eventually work out what works for you or where you need to make improvements or tweaks.

+1, my taste buds (or lack of...) establish the 'guidelines' for my recipes.

 

[Tex083]

I have been reading For the Love of HOPS by Stan Hieronymus and in the back its got some sample recipes the base recipe he puts foward is

72% Pale Malt (your choice local v imported)
13% Marris Otter (english floor malted) lovley!
10% Crystal 20 (light crystal)
3% Acidulated Malt (I sub this for 3% extra base malt and add 100ppm calcium)

single infusion @ 68c

90 Min hops 5-10 IBU
30 Min hops 20 IBU
0 Min 10 IBU
Dry hop 1 week at 20c

Yeast Calafornian Ale @ 20c

Add priming sugar to achieve 2.5Vols of CO2 (5g/L)


Works well, allows the hops to give there full flavour. When working out what hops to use I just drank beers that detiled the hops used and worked out what ones I liked. Mekkeler has a single hop range that displays the hops very well, at $8 for 330mls it gets expensive!