Low Temperature Fermentation

[nala]

I am a first time brewer, attempting to brew lager in my temperature controlled fridge.
I am attempting a 2 X Maltshovel Lager kit using their supplied Lager yeast, I pitched both packets of yeast at a temperature of
12 c, there is no signs of fermentation starting after two days, is this normal ?

 

[DWC]

I am a first time brewer, attempting to brew lager in my temperature controlled fridge.
I am attempting a 2 X Maltshovel Lager kit using their supplied Lager yeast, I pitched both packets of yeast at a temperature of
12 c, there is no signs of fermentation starting after two days, is this normal ?

My first lager took a few days to get going. it should be OK
Cheers

Dave

 

[manticle]

When you say no signs, what signs are you looking for? Lager yeast can be slower to kick off but have you checked the gravity and compared it to the original reading?

That is the only way to be certain. Other signs are condensation on the lid and formation of foam on the surface (krausen).

 

[svyturys]

I have a feeling that you should have pitched the yeast at 20C and then lowered the temperature afterward. I could be wrong as I've only done one lager. people will correct me.
Another point is you should consider what the yeast from under the lid actually is. It may be an ale yeast. If it is, then it won't raise a murmur at 12C no matter what.
Cheers

 

[manticle]

Another point is you should consider what the yeast from under the lid actually is. It may be an ale yeast. If it is, then it won't raise a murmur at 12C no matter what.
Cheers

Good point but it is a lager yeast.

http://www.thbs.intas.net/malt_shovel.htm

 

[svyturys]

Thanks, Manticle.
Wow, I'm surprised that you managed to read what I wrote. The grammar was rather mangled.

Cheers

 

[nala]

Thanks for you response, I will wait and see !

 

[GOLIATH]

Question.??? Did you rehydrate the yeast or do a starter or just chuck it in dry?

Dave

 

[Jamieman]

My last lager was done with 34/70 and took about 2 days to get going and about 13 days to get done down to FG.
First time i used this yeast, i thought something was wrong the sulpher smell was that strong.
I sprinkled it on top of the wort as per instructions instead of re hydrating as i usually do.

 

[roller997]

Were there any instructions on the yeast itself or on the can, just in case it likes slightly warmer temperatures?
Did the can or yeast have a use by date?

Initially I thought perhaps as it is a kit, the yeast might not be a "traditional" lager yeast since many people brewing kit beers don't have fermentation fridges, however I ended up finding a couple of people who ferment it at 12 degrees.

I would turn it up by 2-3 degrees until it starts and then turn it down since I am not always all that patient.
Failing that slight increase in temperature, you could visit your LHBS and get some Lager yeast in case the yeast was past its prime.


Cheers

Roller

 

[Nevalicious]

Nala, I had the same problems aswell. Just put my first lager down in my newly aquired fermentation fridge. I have been happily brewing ales for ages now and decided to see what all the lager hype was about

Pitched dry saflager yeast @ 22*c, bought the temperature down to 12*c overnight, took a few days to start up, but is now merrily fermenting away!

Disaster averted

Tyler

 

[nala]

Nala, I had the same problems aswell. Just put my first lager down in my newly aquired fermentation fridge. I have been happily brewing ales for ages now and decided to see what all the lager hype was about

Pitched dry saflager yeast @ 22*c, bought the temperature down to 12*c overnight, took a few days to start up, but is now merrily fermenting away!

Disaster averted

Tyler

I think the problem lies with my impatience !
The fermentation is underway now, what I have done to ensure that I can visually see the fermentation without opening the fridge
is: I drilled a hole through the door, passed a length of clear tubing through, fashioned an insert from a ballpoint pen which fits the grommet in fermenter attached the tube to this, pushed the end outside the fridge onto a standard airlock, drilled a small hole
in the top of the airlock to hold a rubber suction cup, stuck this to the door and can now see things working away.
Cheers, nala

 

[moultan]

I can hear mine through the fridge..

 

[Steve]

I drilled a hole through the door, passed a length of clear tubing through, fashioned an insert from a ballpoint pen which fits the grommet in fermenter attached the tube to this, pushed the end outside the fridge onto a standard airlock, drilled a small hole
in the top of the airlock to hold a rubber suction cup, stuck this to the door and can now see things working away.
Cheers, nala

You have your airlock at the end of a tube stuck to the outside of the fridge door? Thats cool.

Edit....havent done a lager for years but I used to pitch warm, leave overnight or when there were signs of activity, then I would transfer to fridge to chill it down.

 

[RdeVjun]

I plumbed an airlock on the outside of my fermenting fridge once, when I did my first ever lager in a bar fridge which just wouldn't fit a fermenter and airlock. It is pretty cool, but largely meaningless and unnecessary IMO- I've since realised that an airlock is simply and so easily replaced by clingfilm which, in my bigger fridge, allows four batches fermenting at once if need be, with no crazy plumbing issues.

Specific Gravity tells me pretty much all I really need to know, the bulging film the rest. So if you're struggling to fit an airlock in there because of the overall height, it would pay to give the film some thought. B)

 

[rendo]

I am going to make the move to clingfilm BIG DRUM ROLL!!!

Do you simply clingwrap the top of the fermenter and that is it? Do you need to make any tiny tiny slits in it?? Otherwise how does the CO2 escape? Or does it somehow figure it self out? Yeast fairies maybe?

Rendo

I plumbed an airlock on the outside of my fermenting fridge once, when I did my first ever lager in a bar fridge which just wouldn't fit a fermenter and airlock. It is pretty cool, but largely meaningless and unnecessary IMO- I've since realised that an airlock is simply and so easily replaced by clingfilm which, in my bigger fridge, allows four batches fermenting at once if need be, with no crazy plumbing issues.

Specific Gravity tells me pretty much all I really need to know, the bulging film the rest. So if you're struggling to fit an airlock in there because of the overall height, it would pay to give the film some thought. B)

 

[RdeVjun]

Do you simply clingwrap the top of the fermenter and that is it? Do you need to make any tiny tiny slits in it?? Otherwise how does the CO2 escape? Or does it somehow figure it self out? Yeast fairies maybe?

Sorry to disappoint rendo, just like the tooth fairy, there isn't a yeast fairy either I'm afraid... however, I think you'll find using film is just so simple and effective, there may as well be a magical fairy looking after it!

So, after a thorough sanitising inside and outside around the lip, carefully drape a fresh sheet of film over the fermenter opening. Fasten it in place with either some string, a large rubber band, a string of pipecleaners, usually the actual seal from the fermenter lid fits quite well too. Job done! No need for any holes as the film will bulge with the slight pressure and the gas will escape of its own accord. This is neat as it is constantly venting and has a positive pressure, when fermentation ceases the bulge should drop, that's probably a good time to measure SG and see how well it went. Taking a sample at any time is so much easier too as there's no risk of drawing possibly manky bubbler water back into the beer, just open the tap and draw the sample off, while moving the fermenter around is just as straightforward (again, no risk of bubbler backwash when picking it up).

I tell you what too, the view inside is often something to behold! It is usually an excellent window into your beer and you can keep an eye on progress if you want to. Condensation on the underside sometimes mucks this up, but generally it doesn't form, so the film also provides a handy inspection port.

I often top crop with 1469 and the film makes that so simple as well, there's no need to fart around with getting the lid off and putting it down somewhere while keeping it all clean and the bubbler intact. I peel the film off and toss it, do the top crop transfer and just place a fresh sheet on both fermenters when I'm done. Couldn't be simpler...

One minor down side to it is if there's condensation inside the fridge that drips on to it, unless there's bulging from gas pressure, the drips can collect on it and if there's any holes it will contaminate the beer beneath (hence, just leave the film intact!). This is hardly a show stopper though, I've had quite a lot of condensation lately inside my lager fridge, but it is no drama to mop a few drips up every few days, particularly as I'm about to transfer the fermenters' contents into cubes. BTW cubes being used for fermentation/ cold crash etc. can have a film lids as well, just a small sheet over the opening and single rubber band in that case.

See how you go with that- I've found that just using film as a venting closure is really so simple, yet very effective! B)

As an aside, I'm sure LHBS staff rub their hands together with glee every time a brewer marches into their store demanding grommets, air locks and bubblers etc.

 

[rendo]

WOW...thank you for the excellent reply, you covered everything for me. Except, now I have one more quesiton sorry.

I cant wait to have this new 'viewing window' into my fermenter.... I should have a new brew down early next week. as I am about to cold condition my current one. Speaking of which, do you use cling wrap when you are cold conditioning? (That makes it two new questions!! gee)

Anyhow...new question:

I have two fermenters, one of which a sheet of cling wrap will fit nicely over, but the other fermenter is a bit wider than the roll of cling wrap. Do you simply just put two sheets over each other, assuming that I overlap as much as I can get away with?? Will this work okay? I imagine the sheets will sorta stick together anyway.

PS...good advice about the dripping within the fridge, that shouldnt be a problem for me.

Thanks again for the excellent reply. The people here are AHB are very nice.

Sorry to disappoint rendo, just like the tooth fairy, there isn't a yeast fairy either I'm afraid... however, I think you'll find using film is just so simple and effective, there may as well be a magical fairy looking after it!

So, after a thorough sanitising inside and outside around the lip, carefully drape a fresh sheet of film over the fermenter opening. Fasten it in place with either some string, a large rubber band, a string of pipecleaners, usually the actual seal from the fermenter lid fits quite well too. Job done! No need for any holes as the film will bulge with the slight pressure and the gas will escape of its own accord. This is neat as it is constantly venting and has a positive pressure, when fermentation ceases the bulge should drop, that's probably a good time to measure SG and see how well it went. Taking a sample at any time is so much easier too as there's no risk of drawing possibly manky bubbler water back into the beer, just open the tap and draw the sample off, while moving the fermenter around is just as straightforward (again, no risk of bubbler backwash when picking it up).

I tell you what too, the view inside is often something to behold! It is usually an excellent window into your beer and you can keep an eye on progress if you want to. Condensation on the underside sometimes mucks this up, but generally it doesn't form, so the film also provides a handy inspection port.

I often top crop with 1469 and the film makes that so simple as well, there's no need to fart around with getting the lid off and putting it down somewhere while keeping it all clean and the bubbler intact. I peel the film off and toss it, do the top crop transfer and just place a fresh sheet on both fermenters when I'm done. Couldn't be simpler...

One minor down side to it is if there's condensation inside the fridge that drips on to it, unless there's bulging from gas pressure, the drips can collect on it and if there's any holes it will contaminate the beer beneath (hence, just leave the film intact!). This is hardly a show stopper though, I've had quite a lot of condensation lately inside my lager fridge, but it is no drama to mop a few drips up every few days, particularly as I'm about to transfer the fermenters' contents into cubes. BTW cubes being used for fermentation/ cold crash etc. can have a film lids as well, just a small sheet over the opening and single rubber band in that case.

See how you go with that- I've found that just using film as a venting closure is really so simple, yet very effective! B)

As an aside, I'm sure LHBS staff rub their hands together with glee every time a brewer marches into their store demanding grommets, air locks and bubblers etc.

 

[RdeVjun]

I cant wait to have this new 'viewing window' into my fermenter.... I should have a new brew down early next week. as I am about to cold condition my current one. Speaking of which, do you use cling wrap when you are cold conditioning? (That makes it two new questions!! gee)

I don't actually CC that often, but when I do it just has film. A screw cap is probably OK too as it isn't gassing any more, but a slight suction forms when sealed due to cooling, however the suction isn't any problem with either method AFAIK.
I'll probably CC more in future as I now have my lager fridge back in operation, I've also been too lazy, impatient and thirsty, while with ESBs it isn't a critical feature, just novel, although 1469 does drop pretty bright anyway.

I have two fermenters, one of which a sheet of cling wrap will fit nicely over, but the other fermenter is a bit wider than the roll of cling wrap. Do you simply just put two sheets over each other, assuming that I overlap as much as I can get away with?? Will this work okay? I imagine the sheets will sorta stick together anyway.

Good question, probably would be OK to overlap I guess. You must have an enormous fermenter, or a narrow roll of film. See if you can't get along to caterers/ kitchen wholesalers for a roll of wider film, that'll be much better IMO.

PS...good advice about the dripping within the fridge, that shouldnt be a problem for me.

Thanks again for the excellent reply. The people here are AHB are very nice.

Oh, just stop it... !!

Hope it goes well. :icon_cheers:

 

[Big John]

I'd like to try the cling film.

But I am a bit of a sanitization nazi

Do you sanitise the clingfilm before putting it n your fermenter?

Thanks