Little Brown Pump not enough power

[Truman42]

Sorry about the double post, and I cant seem to upload the file. AHB is having problems it seems.

 

[iralosavic]

Reoriented the pump with the inlet at the bottom, got some water to around 85c into the MLT, primed the pump (watched the bubbles leave the outlet hose and.... Nothing. I tired priming, repriming, different configurations, waiting for the water to cool, flushing the pump, resetting the power source etc

No hit water test run this weekend. I wonder if the pump shat itself?

 

[Adr_0]

The plan was to change the outlet from the HX from the MLT input to just hanging over the side of the boiler (until I get the appropriate fitting to allow underletting), however, the LBP did just not have the guts to pump that far, which is interesting, as it manages quite fine to the MLT return and the boiler is only another 15cm higher (due to the burner platform).

Obviously I could possibly solve this by instead redirecting the flow from the pump outlet and not involve the HX at all, but I was a little suprirsed/disappointed by this and it did mean I had to batch sparge to a pot on the ground and lift it to tip into the boiler 6 or so times, which was a bit risky and a PITA.

Also i swear I heard the pump stop operating for a while when flow had slowed down or stopped (it was definitely still primed [liquid full on in and out hoses]).

bugger.

may have your problem... not sure that the LBP is rated for wort, as when it the wort cools in the pump it probably clogs the sealing mechanism up.

since you are using it to recirc wort, I would suggest that if you use the LBP to push hot water from the HLT to the MLT as well, I would run this for 2min at the end of your brewing to move some water through the pump to flush out any sugar. this water can go back into the HLT if you want, or as sparge into the mash. If you don't have this setup, I suggest a 3-way valve to plumb it in.


what do you reckon? this may also explain why it initially worked ok and has deteriorated each time you try to use it.

EDIT: just for clarity, definitely still run the pump inlet from the bottom of the HLT/MLT -

 

[Truman42]

Pull the pump apart and soak all the bits in pbw.

The shaft bearing/cogged looking thingy will have dried wort in the middle joint which is pushing the shaft against the body and stopping the pump from working.

Do this and run the pump with the body at the top and vertical and your LBP will pump wort until the cows come home.

 

[iralosavic]

bugger.

may have your problem... not sure that the LBP is rated for wort, as when it the wort cools in the pump it probably clogs the sealing mechanism up.

since you are using it to recirc wort, I would suggest that if you use the LBP to push hot water from the HLT to the MLT as well, I would run this for 2min at the end of your brewing to move some water through the pump to flush out any sugar. this water can go back into the HLT if you want, or as sparge into the mash. If you don't have this setup, I suggest a 3-way valve to plumb it in.


what do you reckon? this may also explain why it initially worked ok and has deteriorated each time you try to use it.

EDIT: just for clarity, definitely still run the pump inlet from the bottom of the HLT/MLT -

G'day. When you say to run hot water through the pump at the "end of brewing", you mean at mash out? The pump will recirculate during all mash steps, then immediately switch to fly sparging (with HLT gravity feeding the top of the MLT) right up until the pre boil volume/gravity is achieved, THEN the pump is no longer required.

I already have a 3 way T ported valve in transit, so I could plumb the HLT directly to the pump easily enough. You aren't suggesting recirculating the hot water, are you? Just passing clean water through the pump for a couple mins?

I could add an extra few litres of water to the HLT for this purpose, but I would have to seamlessly transition from fly sparging to diverting the HLT flow to the pump, otherwise the HLT drain flow would stall (as the level would be below the valve and siphoning aciton will have stopped). And this seems a bit clumsy (ie. all human error variables should be minimised in an ideal world) and I have a strong habbit of upholding Murphy's law.

Am I understanding you correctly and if so, got any tips?

 

[iralosavic]

Pull the pump apart and soak all the bits in pbw.

The shaft bearing/cogged looking thingy will have dried wort in the middle joint which is pushing the shaft against the body and stopping the pump from working.

Do this and run the pump with the body at the top and vertical and your LBP will pump wort until the cows come home.

I'll give it a go! Even with the Chugger on the way, I have big plans for that LBP!

 

[Adr_0]

First step is to definitely clean the pump.

Can you post a pic of your setup?

 

[Truman42]

Once Ive mashed out and sparged I hose out my MLT then fill it with 5 litres of hot water (Gravity fed from the HLT, and have allowed for this in my original top up of the HLT). I put some PBW in and then recirculat this throug the pump, hex, and back to the MLT for about ten minutes. I then put the MLT return hose into a bucket and stick the garden hose into the MLT and let that recirculate, rinsing the pwb out of the MLT, pump and lines then hang my hoses and hex coil up to dry.

All done as I reach boil in the kettle and now only have a kettle to clean at EOBD.

There is a metal bush in the middle of the cogged wheel that holds the pumps shaft straight inside the pump body. If this gets wort in it the bush twists slightly and pushes the magnet against the side of the housing it sits inside and slows or stops the pump completly. So it needs to be cleaned out with hot water and kept vertical while running.

 

[Truman42]

I finally found this photo of the brown pump dismantled that Wolfy posted awhile back.

Here is the problem as shown in the photo. This bush gets blocked up with wort which dries up inside causing the pump to stall. If you soak this in hot water or even PBW it should clean out the crap and fix the problem. Then just keep the pump vertical and the body upright. I had problems at first, now my pump has run fine for many many brewing hours without stopping once.

 

[Adr_0]

Once Ive mashed out and sparged I hose out my MLT then fill it with 5 litres of hot water (Gravity fed from the HLT, and have allowed for this in my original top up of the HLT). I put some PBW in and then recirculat this throug the pump, hex, and back to the MLT for about ten minutes. I then put the MLT return hose into a bucket and stick the garden hose into the MLT and let that recirculate, rinsing the pwb out of the MLT, pump and lines then hang my hoses and hex coil up to dry.

All done as I reach boil in the kettle and now only have a kettle to clean at EOBD.

There is a metal bush in the middle of the cogged wheel that holds the pumps shaft straight inside the pump body. If this gets wort in it the bush twists slightly and pushes the magnet against the side of the housing it sits inside and slows or stops the pump completly. So it needs to be cleaned out with hot water and kept vertical while running.

What Truman said.

 

[iralosavic]

Here's my current setup, which I'm adding extra valves to soon to allow bleeding the pump and change pump pathways without disconnecting hoses.

 

[iralosavic]

Once Ive mashed out and sparged I hose out my MLT then fill it with 5 litres of hot water (Gravity fed from the HLT, and have allowed for this in my original top up of the HLT). I put some PBW in and then recirculat this throug the pump, hex, and back to the MLT for about ten minutes. I then put the MLT return hose into a bucket and stick the garden hose into the MLT and let that recirculate, rinsing the pwb out of the MLT, pump and lines then hang my hoses and hex coil up to dry.

All done as I reach boil in the kettle and now only have a kettle to clean at EOBD.

There is a metal bush in the middle of the cogged wheel that holds the pumps shaft straight inside the pump body. If this gets wort in it the bush twists slightly and pushes the magnet against the side of the housing it sits inside and slows or stops the pump completly. So it needs to be cleaned out with hot water and kept vertical while running.

Thanks for the break down, mate. Makes a lot more sense and it will cut down time on my brewday. Any tips on getting the hot grain out of the MLT!? I've just been scooping it out by hand into a 20L pot and dumping it in the bin (until I get chooks).

 

[Truman42]

Thanks for the break down, mate. Makes a lot more sense and it will cut down time on my brewday. Any tips on getting the hot grain out of the MLT!? I've just been scooping it out by hand into a 20L pot and dumping it in the bin (until I get chooks).

I do the same using a plastic scoop. But I have an industrial sized wet and dry vac so was thinking of giving that a try next time. Then I can just empty the vac into the garden bin. (No chooks either)

 

[Darkman]

Once Ive mashed out and sparged I hose out my MLT then fill it with 5 litres of hot water (Gravity fed from the HLT, and have allowed for this in my original top up of the HLT). I put some PBW in and then recirculat this throug the pump, hex, and back to the MLT for about ten minutes. I then put the MLT return hose into a bucket and stick the garden hose into the MLT and let that recirculate, rinsing the pwb out of the MLT, pump and lines then hang my hoses and hex coil up to dry.

All done as I reach boil in the kettle and now only have a kettle to clean at EOBD.

There is a metal bush in the middle of the cogged wheel that holds the pumps shaft straight inside the pump body. If this gets wort in it the bush twists slightly and pushes the magnet against the side of the housing it sits inside and slows or stops the pump completly. So it needs to be cleaned out with hot water and kept vertical while running.

How exactly do you remove this bush?

The last time I pulled apart my LBP I could only get as far as removing the impeller wheel. I really did want to force it but I pressume you need a small screw driver to force it out.

 

[iralosavic]

How exactly do you remove this bush?

The last time I pulled apart my LBP I could only get as far as removing the impeller wheel. I really did want to force it but I pressume you need a small screw driver to force it out.

I'll have a fiddle tonight, but I assume you only really have a few options: pry it out, knock it out or suck it out lol and by suck I mean use a strong magnet

 

[Adr_0]

This may achieve what you want:

Really depends on your layout. You can use two-way/normal ball valves on the HLT drain or a 3-way... makes zero difference; just use what you have. A 3-way would be good on the LBP outlet though. You can mount it vertically if you want, I think the 'casing' of the pump will still fill up with wort though and you will still need to flush.

If you can pull out the MLT when the boil is on and your 30kW flames of hell burner is going strong, that's great - and just look after the spent grains how you normally do. Not sure what your setup is, but regardless the valve under the MLT should be closed at this point. If you can remove your MLT the MLT return from the Hx can just go to a bucket of water for e.g. Obviously the Hx should have no power/heat to it at this point. I guess you should turn the LBP off after your transfer to the kettle and while you pull the MLT out.

EDIT: Technically the inlet and outlet on the LBP aren't drawn correctly, but you can see the basic process flows which is the important bit.

 

[iralosavic]

This may achieve what you want:

Really depends on your layout. You can use two-way/normal ball valves on the HLT drain or a 3-way... makes zero difference; just use what you have. A 3-way would be good on the LBP outlet though. You can mount it vertically if you want, I think the 'casing' of the pump will still fill up with wort though and you will still need to flush.

If you can pull out the MLT when the boil is on and your 30kW flames of hell burner is going strong, that's great - and just look after the spent grains how you normally do. Not sure what your setup is, but regardless the valve under the MLT should be closed at this point. If you can remove your MLT the MLT return from the Hx can just go to a bucket of water for e.g. Obviously the Hx should have no power/heat to it at this point. I guess you should turn the LBP off after your transfer to the kettle and while you pull the MLT out.

EDIT: Technically the inlet and outlet on the LBP aren't drawn correctly, but you can see the basic process flows which is the important bit.

You've designed a very similar solution that I have come up with pending my new pump, only I haven't go tthe HLT flow diverted to the inlet (as it seems like it would be fine to just start the flow in the MLT if I have to clean it out first anyway and I've added a bleed/purge valve and have chosen two separate valves instead of a 3-way on the output side so that I can control flow speed to the kettle without letting the balance back through the HX. Good to see another mind come up with the same design more or less!

 

[Adr_0]

You've designed a very similar solution that I have come up with pending my new pump, only I haven't go tthe HLT flow diverted to the inlet (as it seems like it would be fine to just start the flow in the MLT if I have to clean it out first anyway and I've added a bleed/purge valve and have chosen two separate valves instead of a 3-way on the output side so that I can control flow speed to the kettle without letting the balance back through the HX. Good to see another mind come up with the same design more or less!

Cool. As long as you're making delicious delicious wort for the yeasties, you're set.

 

[iralosavic]

That's it. I generally attract Murphy's law, so whatever I can do to reduce error potential in my system means more efficient and therefore, more frequent delicious delicious wort production.

I have an Aussie Pilsener feeding the yeasties at the moment. So much saaz aroma the beez are swarming in. (Aussie = dryer/less bitter = for the fellas). Gonna Marzenbier it up on the yeast cake then give it one last life cycle on a Dunkel. Needless to say, I want my pump operating flawlessly!

 

[iralosavic]

Ok here's a quesiton: how do you get the shaft and bush casing out of the pump housing? So far I've got the impeller off and the shaft is sticking out teasing me.

EDIT: nevermind, the answer is pull harder with the plyers. (Mine was really stuck!)
EDIT EDIT: While I'm at it, to get the bush out, just gently apply lever action with something like the tip of a paring knife or, in my case, utility tweezers, working your way around the bush to try and dislodge it evenly without distorting it.

** There was actually gunk in the bush on the bottom of the drive shaft cavity, so I just injected some of the sodium percarbonate mix into it to soak, rather than mess about trying to get that bush out too.