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Fly Sparging With Brown Pump.

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Truman42

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Im looking at switching from batch sparging to fly sparging but due to my brew frame design I am unable to get my HLT high enough to gravity feed into the MT.

I have two brown pumps and was looking at setting them up so one pumps water from the HLT via a sparge arm into the MLT while the other pumps out of the MT into the kettle.

Is anyone else using brown pumps to fly sparge? If so whats the best way to set this up with regards to flow rates etc? Im assuming at full flow it would be too quick for a decent fly sparge. But not sure how slow I need to reduce the flow rate too and if I am better off using taps on the outlets or some sort of voltage control to slow the pumps down.

Any advice appreciated.
 

Yob

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cant really help too much with that Truman but I do know the flowrate is got be be about 1L per min into the MT and same for into the Keggle.. I probably go a little less than that most times... maybe .75l/min dunno, never actually worked out what it is, slower is better though.

How you setup pumps to do that is beyond me and why I went for a gravity system.

Sorry.
 

scottc1178

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I did my first fly sparge with my 2 kaixin pumps on the weekend, so i'm by no means an expert, but this is what i was told, and what i did. you need to throttle the pumps flow with a ball valve on the OUTPUT side of the pump. also, I had to throttle it right back to a trickle, as anything more was disturbing the grain bed quite badly and making it pull unevenly... so go nice n slow.
 

Screwtop

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Pump from HLT (temp set at 77C) via HEX (set at the same temp) to the MLT at a rate which maintains wort depth while draining to the kettle. Set output around .5 - 1L per min and maintain depth in the MLT by throttling back the pump out valve.

Using the HERMS I only ever set HLT temp to 77C. Strike water pumped to empty MLT at 77C, temp drops to around 68, set HEX to mash temp XX and begin recirc, temp drops to around 64, when strike water and equipment equalises at mash temp add grist gradually and give a little stir. After sacch rest ramp temp to 77 for the MO rest. After the MO rest begin to drain/sparge, HLT is at 77 and HEX is at 77. Hex helps to maintain sparge temp as you will need to kill the heat to the HLT early to avoid dry running the element.


This is my sparge/wort return - simply silicone hose with a fishing net float slipped over the end. Tried rotating arms, sprays, spreaders and dishes - this works. Maintain liquid level an inch or so above the grist, liquid runs out slowly onto the surface, no disturbing grainbed.



Hope this helps,

Screwy
 

geneabovill

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I'd say the flow would depend on the sparge arm ... how many bends, diameter of the tube, diameter of the holes in the shower head/copper tube, etc.

You're probably better of experimenting with all that. Do an APA or ESB after building the system and dial it in that way.

FWIW, I recirculate on my BIAB urn at full flow. The sparge arm is a copper pipe (about 1500mm) bent into a spiral and runs at full flow.
 

Truman42

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Thanks gents, I did some measurements and I could get away with using gravity if I either...

Used a food grade hose to run from my front tap into the HLT.

Used a step ladder to get high enough to pour water into the top of the HLT, but risk some OH&S issues doing this.

I have two pumps and two 3 way valves so cost isnt a factor. Its going to be more so what works out being easier to setup. But I must admit currently I have to disconnect my MLT recirc in hose and connect it up to another hose to fill the kettle. This is where I always manage to spill some wort and burn my hands, so with two pumps I could have a setup that I didn't need to switch hoses at all.
 

browndog

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Thanks gents, I did some measurements and I could get away with using gravity if I either...

Used a food grade hose to run from my front tap into the HLT.

Used a step ladder to get high enough to pour water into the top of the HLT, but risk some OH&S issues doing this.

I have two pumps and two 3 way valves so cost isnt a factor. Its going to be more so what works out being easier to setup. But I must admit currently I have to disconnect my MLT recirc in hose and connect it up to another hose to fill the kettle. This is where I always manage to spill some wort and burn my hands, so with two pumps I could have a setup that I didn't need to switch hoses at all.

As long as you are not carrying hot water up the stepladder, danger lurks everywhere, even in your refrigerator (see off topic) as I now know.
 

Beerisyummy

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I did my first fly sparge with my 2 kaixin pumps on the weekend, so i'm by no means an expert, but this is what i was told, and what i did. you need to throttle the pumps flow with a ball valve on the OUTPUT side of the pump. also, I had to throttle it right back to a trickle, as anything more was disturbing the grain bed quite badly and making it pull unevenly... so go nice n slow.
+1 For throttling back on the output.

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I've got a bit of experience with the long term use of small centrifugal pumps.

If you throttle them back on the output side you can usually throttle them back to around 30% output before they start to cavitate and destroy themselves. They also chew less juice this way although it's better to choose a pump that is rated slightly above what you will require as they run better and longer.
Throttle them too much on the input side and they are great at whipping up foam.
If you throttle a cetrifugal style pump the impellers end up spinning faster and just spin more of the small amount of fluid in the casing around and around. This chews less juice than throwing incoming liquid outwards.
When using a controller to lower the speed of the pump, you run the risk of throwing the balance out when the speed gets too low. This IME happens (a fair whack) before you start to get cavitation with a restricted pump.
When slowing down the rotation of a pump you just need to visualise the last moments before a spinning top topples over. When you get the rotation too low you can usually hear the pump becoming noisey which is a bad sign. If you speed it up you will hear it become quieter as it balances out.
This does not take into account an out of balance pump of course.



Always throttle the outlet of a centrifugal pump before trying to slow its rotation IMO.

Peace out.
 

pike1973

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As long as you are not carrying hot water up the stepladder, danger lurks everywhere, even in your refrigerator (see off topic) as I now know.
Beware the left over ham, that pig will get revenge somehow.
 

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