Lager question

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, I won't say it's 'ready' yet but it's clear and carbed just 5 days in the bottle. It's the best pils I've done yet! Still a tiny bit too tasty to be a megaswill Bali Bintang but definitely a complete winner. Next up I'll use 10% sucrose with the ale malt and see how she goes. It should also help add a little colour too, pils malt is very light, it physically looks like a Corona

Looking forward to conditioning this one

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well it's been in the bottle a few weeks now and is the best I've ever done! Really like this one. Its just so on the mark. Bitterness is just right and flavour is dead-on. I think mashing at 64 has made a great difference so cheers for the heads up on that once again

I'm also finding lately it's hard to beat a really simple grain bill too. Just pils for this one and my pale ale's and IPA's are improving the less specialty malts I use too

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

PVPP isn't a fining either, it chemically binds the Polyphenols that are one half of the haze formation equation.

In French, fining is "collage", the word also means "gluing". The basic action is to bind together small particles so that the agglomeration becomes large enough to sediment out.

It can be argued that since PVPP is itself large enough to sediment out that its action can be technically described as that of an adsorbent but it's still a form of fining. The same is true of many other forms of fining eg the casein in skim milk denatures instantly at wine pH but it's still a fining.

Legally the addition of any additive or process aid whose purpose is to aid clarification is fining.

 

[MHB]

Its an opinion that has been much discussed, I'm not sure what you mean by legally but the definition I find most useful refers to agents that cause small particles to flock and settle out faster (see stokes law)
PVPP and a bunch of other products are called process aids. I know wine makers use a much boarder definition of what a fining is, and quite a few products that we don't/wont use in brewing (bentonite, milk, blood, egg white...)
I recall having this conversation several years ago, someone opined that if you added a shedload of SO2, the yeast would all fall out - so SO2 would be a fining in that case.
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Exactly: an additive is defined by its function, not by its mode of action.

You are right that usage is a bit broader in wine: I am currently looking at fining trials in my '17 chardonnays and it will make SFA difference to clarity after they are cross flowed through 0.2 micron membranes. What I'm after is flavour / phenolic balance.

 

[Coodgee]

no need to over-think a lager. Putting this one down over the weekend:

Style: Munich Helles

Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 4.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.5 EBC) Grain 1 100.0 %
7.00 g Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 2 10.9 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 3 5.4 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 4 1.8 IBUs
3.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 5 -



----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 16.17 l of water and heat to 50.0 C 50.0 C 10 min
Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 76.0 C 76.0 C 10 min

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Beautiful man, should be a winner. I just want to say, I tried a very similar recipe a few months back, also to 18ibu but ended up tipping it because it really needed more than that. I just don't understand such low ibu. Could barely notice it was there.

I understand it must be true to style but the helles definitely isn't for me. And I like lagers like Heinekin etc! I mention Heine' because National home brew laughed at me when I asked if they had a recipe like it. He said a helles will blow me away. Well, it certainly didn't.

Certainly don't want to put you off this one at all but that's just my personal experience with the helles anyway. Hope all goes well for you Coodgee

no need to over-think a lager. Putting this one down over the weekend:

Style: Munich Helles

Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 4.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.5 EBC) Grain 1 100.0 %
7.00 g Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 2 10.9 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 3 5.4 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 4 1.8 IBUs
3.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 5 -



----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 16.17 l of water and heat to 50.0 C 50.0 C 10 min
Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 76.0 C 76.0 C 10 min

 

[Dan Pratt]

no need to over-think a lager. Putting this one down over the weekend:

Style: Munich Helles

Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 4.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.5 EBC) Grain 1 100.0 %
7.00 g Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 2 10.9 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 3 5.4 IBUs
20.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 4 1.8 IBUs
3.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 5 -



----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 16.17 l of water and heat to 50.0 C 50.0 C 10 min
Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water at 76.0 C 76.0 C 10 min

nice coodgee.

what pH did you get for the mash?

 

[manticle]

Beautiful man, should be a winner. I just want to say, I tried a very similar recipe a few months back, also to 18ibu but ended up tipping it because it really needed more than that. I just don't understand such low ibu. Could barely notice it was there.

I understand it must be true to style but the helles definitely isn't for me. And I like lagers like Heinekin etc! I mention Heine' because National home brew laughed at me when I asked if they had a recipe like it. He said a helles will blow me away. Well, it certainly didn't.

Certainly don't want to put you off this one at all but that's just my personal experience with the helles anyway. Hope all goes well for you Coodgee

How bitter do you reckon heineken is?

 

[Jack of all biers]

How bitter do you reckon heineken is?

IBU of 23 seems the most consistent interwebs answer, though one has 25, but has a question mark behind it and this one maybe has it at 18.5 IBU and it seems the most convincing. None of them have a reference, including the Wikipedia link

.... I like lagers like Heinekin etc! I mention Heine' because National home brew laughed at me when I asked if they had a recipe like it. He said a helles will blow me away. Well, it certainly didn't.

GIven you only mentioned Heineken because the HB owner laughed about it, then similar Dutch pale lagers have more. Brand have them from 27 IBU up to 37 IBU and Grolsch Premium is 27 IBU (or at least the recipe I have).

Grolsch type lager
OG 1048 - 11.9 Plato
FG1011 - 2.7 Plato
Colour 3 EBC
85% Pilsner malt
15% flaked maize
Mash schedule;
62C - 45 min
70C - 45 min (or 30 min and a higher mashout temp step if you like)

Equal amounts of Saaz and Hallertau to 27 IBU
90 min boil
Clean lager yeast (W-34/70 is my preference)
Lager for 8-10 weeks.

 

[Coodgee]

Beautiful man, should be a winner. I just want to say, I tried a very similar recipe a few months back, also to 18ibu but ended up tipping it because it really needed more than that. I just don't understand such low ibu. Could barely notice it was there.

I understand it must be true to style but the helles definitely isn't for me. And I like lagers like Heinekin etc! I mention Heine' because National home brew laughed at me when I asked if they had a recipe like it. He said a helles will blow me away. Well, it certainly didn't.

Certainly don't want to put you off this one at all but that's just my personal experience with the helles anyway. Hope all goes well for you Coodgee

gee it must have been bad to tip it? I find 18 IBU is plenty in a dry beer. what was the final gravity of your beer?

 

[Coodgee]

nice coodgee.

what pH did you get for the mash?

didn't manage to brew on the weekend but I'll adjust it to 5.2 with phosphoric acid. I am thinking of using RO water just to remove the chlorine/chloromine.

edit.. Do you reckon I could ferment at 9 degrees with 3 packs of 34/70 or would you go 10 degrees for this one and then do one at 9 degrees with the slurry?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Yea I definitely could have kept it but it just wasn't something I enjoyed so tipped them and reused the bottles for something else. I've done the same with a wheat beer I diluted too nuch early on abd 1x what I thought was an infected brew (before all grain) This is before I mashed low and from memory fg was around 1.010 but even 25-30ibu is pretty weak in any lager for me personally anyway.

Like I said, it's probably just me and I say more power to anyone who likes them less bitter. Just my observation

gee it must have been bad to tip it? I find 18 IBU is plenty in a dry beer. what was the final gravity of your beer?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

By the way: Question: Has anyone here done a Belgian style wit bier with just pilsner malt and WB-06? Just a thought. I've got a bunch of pils malt and loads of ready to drink lagers so could be fun to make something different

 

[Dan Pratt]

didn't manage to brew on the weekend but I'll adjust it to 5.2 with phosphoric acid. I am thinking of using RO water just to remove the chlorine/chloromine.

edit.. Do you reckon I could ferment at 9 degrees with 3 packs of 34/70 or would you go 10 degrees for this one and then do one at 9 degrees with the slurry?

It will ferment however the rate will be slower, so target 12c and then the next beer on the slurry at 9c. That yeast is good up to 15c

 

[2cranky]

By the way: Question: Has anyone here done a Belgian style wit bier with just pilsner malt and WB-06? Just a thought. I've got a bunch of pils malt and loads of ready to drink lagers so could be fun to make something different

Probably better with wheat in a wit beir. You could go half half though.

 

[manticle]

WB06, as far as I'm aware is a German Hefe strain so you will get a different result to using something like WY forbidden fruit or Belgian wit in general.

Wit also uses unmalted wheat as opposed to/as well as malted wheat.

 

[shacked]

By the way: Question: Has anyone here done a Belgian style wit bier with just pilsner malt and WB-06? Just a thought. I've got a bunch of pils malt and loads of ready to drink lagers so could be fun to make something different

Just brew it and see how it goes. As others have said, it’s not going to be a wit per the style guide but it might be a nice beer in any event.

One of the best hoppy beers I’ve made used a blend of WLP500/550 and belle saison!!

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Thanks for the inspiration man. And, true dat'. It's been really good experimenting. The more I do, the more you really learn and can create great recipes

 

[Ben Hardman]

Two packs in 23L is about right. Yes, it's expensive but you can step up. A stir plate is best but, for years I used 2L wine bottles (flagons) and step up with about 1.5L of 'wort' made up to 1.040 with DME and allowed to ferment out. Add oxygen if you have it otherwise shake the **** out of it. That keeps the cost in check.

Go one step better, add a small amount of 'wort' to your starter at the beginning of your brew day, when it comes time to pitch, you're adding actively fermenting yeast to your beer, it starts fermenting straight away with no lag time - perfect.

Damn, just down coopers Canadian blonde with s23 1 satchet rehydrated overnight with a 1 litre started and 2 spoons of malt and looked pretty active, wont have a chance to get to a brew shop for more yeast should I through in the kit yeast as well?

Brewing in a brew fridge at 12 degree's just went in today.