Lager question

[Doctormcbrewdle]

You'll be fine as-is. Check out the Exbeeriment 'lager yeast pitch rate'. They pitch 1 pack vs 5 packs. Very interesting. I can also somewhat concur because I've done a few lagers with the same ingredients and yeast at 18 vs 12. No different for me..

They also did an exbeeriment in that, too

 

[manticle]

Brulosophy found no difference between 1 and 5 packs with their mates in the shed? Whatever will they debunk next?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I don't think there'll be much difference between that and a can of Coopers premix at home man.. lets be real here

 

[manticle]

According to brulosophy, there’s no discernible difference between anything, ever.

Except brewing salts and mash pH

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well I ended up going 100% BB ale malt to 1.040. Same Hallertau hop additions and yeast. It's just about done fermenting now, almost cold crash time and taste? Good! It pretty well tastes exactly the same as the other but presenting a little darker in colour. And that's including less malt and a further 4l brew water. Looking forward to seeing how it ages after lagering. Will keep you posted

Next up is the same done with ale malt instead as an exBeeriment you could say. I'll throw in 7-10% sucrose and maybe a tadd less bittering (latest done at 30 ibu which I wouldn't have thought would taste so bitter, must be the light malt)

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well, there it is.. Have you experimented personally? I've done the lager yeast temp exbeeriment and came up with the same result = no difference. You can't argue with results. That's called denial

Instead, I learn what I can from everyone I can, taking everything with a grain of salt until I can personally prove or debunk. I think that way you've covered all bases.

According to brulosophy, there’s no discernible difference between anything, ever.

Except brewing salts and mash pH

 

[manticle]

Thanks. I know how it works. Funnily enough, a bunch of really knowledgeable, well educated and well funded groups and individuals throughout several decades and all across the globe have run much more well designed experiments and come up with completely different results to brulosophy - all with variables isolated, large sample groups and repeatability. Yet one bloke on the internet doing some half arsed shit with six mates and some free piss in multicoloured cups is enough to debunk all that and more in the minds of so many.

Yes I’ve brewed beer with less than adequate yeast. Many times.

Also brewed the same/similar recipes with recommended amounts from multiple packs, reused yeast slurry, active starters, etc. No reason for anyone but me to take my subjective experience on faith but high pitching rates have won for me just about every time. Active, adequate starters are my pick of choice, oxygenation next on my list.

 

[manticle]

And you can always argue with results if the method is suspect. Look at Yellow Bamboo

 

[labels]

Damn, just down coopers Canadian blonde with s23 1 satchet rehydrated overnight with a 1 litre started and 2 spoons of malt and looked pretty active, wont have a chance to get to a brew shop for more yeast should I through in the kit yeast as well?

Brewing in a brew fridge at 12 degree's just went in today.

Should be fine, rdwhahb

 

[Coodgee]

nice coodgee.

what pH did you get for the mash?

5.23 +/- 0.05 to be precise!

 

[Coodgee]

might as well keep spamming then... I rehydrated 3 packs of W34/70 last night and pitched about 9pm when the wort was at 10 degrees. let it rise to 11.5-11.8 after pitching. Not a sign of a Krausen in the morning but by 3pm this afternoon there was a thick white covering. 18 hours! that's similar to pitching 2 packs of US-05 at 18 degrees.

 

[rude]

5.23 +/- 0.05 to be precise!

View attachment 110548

31.7c bit high there
I usually aim for 20 to 25c temp before checking my ph

 

[labels]

might as well keep spamming then... I rehydrated 3 packs of W34/70 last night and pitched about 9pm when the wort was at 10 degrees. let it rise to 11.5-11.8 after pitching. Not a sign of a Krausen in the morning but by 3pm this afternoon there was a thick white covering. 18 hours! that's similar to pitching 2 packs of US-05 at 18 degrees.

No matter what the yeast labs tell you, pitching with an actively fermenting yeast starter is the best way. For less than a hundred bucks you can get a stir plate and 3L flask from keg king or similar supplier, make up some 1.040 wort with DME and have that kicking before you add to your wort.

You will honestly be surprised at the results in quick starting no lag time, but the best part is the beer will be quicker to finish and be noticably much better

 

[manticle]

I’m with you labels. Active starters make a pronounced difference.

 

[rude]

No matter what the yeast labs tell you, pitching with an actively fermenting yeast starter is the best way. For less than a hundred bucks you can get a stir plate and 3L flask from keg king or similar supplier, make up some 1.040 wort with DME and have that kicking before you add to your wort.

You will honestly be surprised at the results in quick starting no lag time, but the best part is the beer will be quicker to finish and be noticably much better

So do you pitch 2 pkts into 1040 wort & spin that up in you’re 3 litre flask on top of you’re stir plate ?
Generally interested as I have always just rehydrated then pitched for dry yeast

 

[hobospy]

Do you pitch the whole lot? I've been making starters but generally let them ferment out, chill, decant and then bring up to temp and pitch. Seems like I can skip a few steps and possibly get the ferment kicking in quicker, does this have much of an impact on the overall flavour of your beer?

 

[manticle]

Active starters, you want to pitch the lot. However mine are made from identical wort (kettle dregs left to settle, decanted off any trub*) and I not use a stirplate or ferment at high temperatures.

@rude - I've only done with liquid. If I am making a big beer or a lager, I may do a 4-6 L starter with one pack, then as that gets added to the main batch, I add in another fresh pack.

*Advantage of no chill.

 

[rude]

Active starters, you want to pitch the lot. However mine are made from identical wort (kettle dregs left to settle, decanted off any trub*) and I not use a stirplate or ferment at high temperatures.

@rude - I've only done with liquid. If I am making a big beer or a lager, I may do a 4-6 L starter with one pack, then as that gets added to the main batch, I add in another fresh pack.

*Advantage of no chill.

Same here only with liquid yeasts
Coodgee was using W34/70 pkt yeast then Labels chimed in with active starters so had my attention
As I said Ive only ever followed the instructions & rehydrated dried yeast then pitched into the wort
Will be interesting to see if Labels was on about liquid or dried yeast

 

[Coodgee]

Same here only with liquid yeasts
Coodgee was using W34/70 pkt yeast then Labels chimed in with active starters so had my attention
As I said Ive only ever followed the instructions & rehydrated dried yeast then pitched into the wort
Will be interesting to see if Labels was on about liquid or dried yeast

I've only ever made starters with liquid yeasts. The Mr Malty website claims "[dry yeast] does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. So I just rehydrate them as per usual instructions."

Personally if I'm doing a beer like a helles, IPA or pale ale and there is the same strain of yeast available in dry or liquid form (US-05 vs WY1056, W34/70 vs Wyeast 2124 etc) , I'll go the dry form because it's easier and I don't think there is any discernible difference to the finished beer. If I'm doing a Saison, wit, English ale etc where the yeast I want doesn't come in a dry form then I'll happily spin up a starter.

But especially with W34/70, the ease of pitching 3 packs is much preferable to making a huge starter from a pack of Wyeast 2124, IMHO.

...and regarding the wort temp when taking a mash ph reading. it was sitting in an ice bath and hit 20 degrees about a minute after I took that photo. the ph reading didn't change - the ATC is pretty good on that meter.

 

[labels]

So do you pitch 2 pkts into 1040 wort & spin that up in you’re 3 litre flask on top of you’re stir plate ?
Generally interested as I have always just rehydrated then pitched for dry yeast

For a 50 litre batch I use two pkts in the flask at 1.040 and at 2.5L. I let this ferment out completely and settle. I then tip off the beery liquid and add another 2.5L of DME about 8 hours before pitching which by that time is fermenting away nicely. I run the stir plate at around 22C-25C. Normally, 2 pkts is not enough in a 50L lager but this method seems to work well with the two-step method