Lager musings and advice please

[Coodgee]

So the other day I did a double batch, the first a bo pils and the second a helles. I got better than expected efficiency on both brews so ended up with an OG on the helles of 1.054 and a ridiculous 1.064 on the pils.

I mashed the helles at 68 according to my recipe (it's the gold medal Sitzung Helles recipe) and pitched 3 packets of w-34/70 (estimated 540 billion cells with a required cell count of 436 billion according to beersmith) when the wort reached 11 degrees. I fermented at this temp until the wort was reading about 1018 s.g. and then raised it up to 14 for about a week. At this point it's at 1013 and has been there for about 4 days so I'd say that's f.g. all up it's been 13 days since brew day.

The pils I mashed at 65 degrees for an hour and then 70 for 20 minutes. I added a 3L stirred starter of WYEAST 2001 Urquell H strain ( estimated 414 billion cells, 500 billion required) and pitched at 11 degrees at the same time. The krausen on the pils only just subsided in the last day or so, it has been steadily chugging along. It is currently sitting at 1.014. I added the whole volume of starter so I recalculated the OG of the pils to be 1.059 for 23 litres - I just added 3L to the post boil volume and added 300g of dry extract to the recipe. aeration on both was just letting the wort trickle down the side of the fermenter while filling from the CFC.

So it's interesting that the helles, mashed at 68, had a substantial over-pitch of dry yeast and achieved 75.9% attenuation versus the bo pils which was mashed at 65/70 and achieved 76.3% attenuation. It's not really what I expected, but goes to show the importance of mash temperature on attenuation. I wouldn't be surprised if the pils dropped another point yet to finish equal to the helles. Interesting huh?

Now I was thinking, I've got a pretty beasty pils here.I was thinking of dry hopping it with 25 grams of saaz to maintain the malt/hop balance. has anyone had any success dry hopping bo pils? if so how much and for how long?

From here I plan to transfer both beers to cubes to lager for 6-8 weeks at 0 degrees so I have a window of opportunity to dry hop now for 4-5 days before transferring. Thoughts?

 

[Bribie G]

68 would have produced a lot of dextrins that wouldn't ferment out.
Why didn't you do a more typical 62 / 71 / mashout or thereabouts?

I sometimes do a mild ale for comps. Current one was mashed at 70 with a grain bill more suitable to a 5% ABV beer but has come out full flavoured (if anything a bit chewy) but low alcohol, >4%

ed: I'd guess the difference in the attenuation would likely be just the different yeasts? Much in the same way as Nottingham vs other ale yeasts in the case of ales.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

My thoughts exactly, the 34/70 is much more attenuative than the 2001, easily enough to account for the difference.

Edit: Brewer's Friend has them at 83% and 74% respectively

 

[Coodgee]

68 would have produced a lot of dextrins that wouldn't ferment out.
Why didn't you do a more typical 62 / 71 / mashout or thereabouts?

I sometimes do a mild ale for comps. Current one was mashed at 70 with a grain bill more suitable to a 5% ABV beer but has come out full flavoured (if anything a bit chewy) but low alcohol, >4%

ed: I'd guess the difference in the attenuation would likely be just the different yeasts? Much in the same way as Nottingham vs other ale yeasts in the case of ales.

The recipe calls for 68 degrees for 60 minutes followed by a mash out. It's a gold medal beer so I was following it as closely as possible.

My thoughts exactly, the 34/70 is much more attenuative than the 2001, easily enough to account for the difference.

Edit: Brewer's Friend has them at 83% and 74% respectively

yes but this is what makes it interesting, the 2001 achieved 76.3% attenuation versus 75.9% for the 34/70, so it's the opposite of what you would expect and I put this down to the mash temperatures.

 

[MHB]

As much as I like Saaz, it would be tail end charley when it comes to dry hoping, prone to throwing a whole lawn full of grassy flavours/aromas when dry hoped late. Not so bad if you add it at the start of the ferment, CO2 evolution scrubs out most of the grassiness.
I would make a tea and add the tea to the keg, if after you taste the beer you think it needs it.
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

it's the opposite of what you would expect

My point was that it's exactly what you would expect given that the fermentabilities of the mashes and the attenuativities (is that a word?) of the yeasts are moving in opposite directions. It's kind of neat that they balanced to less than 0.5%.

 

[Coodgee]

As much as I like Saaz, it would be tail end charley when it comes to dry hoping, prone to throwing a whole lawn full of grassy flavours/aromas when dry hoped late. Not so bad if you add it at the start of the ferment, CO2 evolution scrubs out most of the grassiness.
I would make a tea and add the tea to the keg, if after you taste the beer you think it needs it.
Mark

ok thanks. will leave as is.

My point was that it's exactly what you would expect given that the fermentabilities of the mashes and the attenuativities (is that a word?) of the yeasts are moving in opposite directions. It's kind of neat that they balanced to less than 0.5%.

ok I see what you mean. I wouldn't say it's exactly what you'd expect. Hard to know what would happen unless you do it. now we know. well now I know, maybe it was fairly common knowledge.