Lager Advice - Doing It Properly, Recipe Suggestions

[blakie21]

Hi guys,

I have looked at a few recipes but searching this forum is a bit of a nightmare. I have a keezer but no other temperature control, so I was thinking... since I have ales only in the keezer I could ramp the temperatures up to say 10-12 degrees and do a lager in the keezer as well.

At the moment I have it set to 8 degrees and finding it a good temperature to serve at, are there any lager yeasts that will work? Most seem to only like 9 at the lowest. Or should I just whack it up to around 12 to avoid complications?

Anyone have any good kit recipes? Or extract if it means a better result? Favourite yeast choice?

I am not a huge lager person myself but do enjoy european lagers and this one is mainly to experience making a proper one and also for mates who hate ales (wtf!?). I wont bother doing it if it wont be the same/better than a heineken/peroni or something like that. Would prefer to make something really good rather than mainstream but dont actually know many lagers to be honest! :S

Any suggestions appreciated. Cheers.

 

[Clutch]

IIRC 189 might be the go.

 

[blakie21]

IIRC 189 might be the go.

Have seen that a few times in threads while searching. Will probably grab a twin pack and go with that. Cheers.

 

[dougsbrew]

quote - I wont bother doing it if it wont be the same/better than a heineken/peroni or something like that.

sorry to burst your bubble but its not an easy task making a beer better than those mentioned...
check the recipe database for recipes, sort by star rating/feedback for popular/good recipes.

 

[Nick JD]

Lagers are all about noble hops. Hallertau is extensively used in nearly everything that comes from western europe in a green bottle.

A great lager needs a noble hop. Others are Saaz, Tettnang, Hersbrucker and a few others that kinda qualify.

You need to go extract. Find a GREAT quality malt extract - this will make all the difference.

Have patience. At under 10C, a lager will take weeks (maybe 4-5) to ferment out. Rack it to seconday and leave it another 2.

Any dry or liquid lager yeast used at under 10C will give superb results. But it'll be SLOW.

Also, use some of your extract and make up a 4L (1.040) starter with your pack of yeast. Cold ferment lagers need SHITLOADS of yeast.

The Briess dried malt is the shizzle. So is Czech Saaz (IMO, the best lager hop EVAR).

Again, you must be patient - Lager actually means "storage" in German. Set and forget.

You will produce a beer as good as the euro commercials, but only if you are not in a hurry, or stingy with your ingredients list.

 

[bignath]

Tend to agree with doug, its really difficult making a delicate, balanced lager like some of the euro offerings.

If you want to experience doing a lagerproperly, a compromise wont work. Id look at using W34/70 yeast @ 11/12 degrees for a real authentic lager, give it a quick diacetyl rest around 15/16 for a couple of days to help the yeast cleanup.

As far as recipie goes, don't know......im all grain and have now forgotten how to make a good lager with kits.

 

[blakie21]

Most of my beers so far have been as good or better than the commercial ones I have tried even with kits, which is why I said I won't bother unless it is the same or better. Since I don't like crappy lagers, id rather buy it than make one I won't enjoy/drink. Having not done a lager I had no idea it would be out of reach with a kit.

Thanks Nick, once again with awesome advice! May have to get some briess extract and give it a go, as long as it wont fail under 10 degrees I might try it at 9-10. I have the luxury of a couple of kegs worth of beer to see me through so can definitley be patient and I have become a much better brewer so willing to tackle a decent lager. Cheers Nath, will the W34/70 work at that temperature or would I be better with the S189??

If I pitch 2 packets of yeast could I avoid the starter? or still advisable?

Edit - is the briess liquid malt any good? (local shop has only liquid)

 

[manticle]

Might not be 'easy' but I think Nick's advice is a s close as you'll come. Only you can decide if it's as good or better.

Noble hop (fresh) healthy yeast, appropriate temp, lots of patience and cold storage post fermentation.

Change noble for appropriate, add appropriate to healthy yeast and you pretty much have the basic formula for a good beer. Appropriate malt and appropriate water will finish out the edges.

 

[blakie21]

How does this sound

2kg Briess Pilsen Light DME
120g Carapils Malt
Possibly 300g or so dextrose (not sure)

15g Czech Saaz @ 45
30g Tettnang @ 45
15g Czech Saaz @ 15
15g Czech Saaz @ Flameout

Twin pack CB Swiss lager yeast.

Completely made up by me so please let me know if something can be improved/sounds off.

Works out to be around 4.5%, 24ish IBU

Does this sound any good? or should I get different hops for bittering?

 

[manticle]

Noble hops give lovely smooth bittering.

Personal preference - I'd push the IBU to at least 30. Good czech pils like pilsner urquell is up around 40 but is still lovely and smooth.

The dex will help balance things out a bit.

Ferment cool and be patient and it should turn out well.

 

[Nick JD]

Looks good. Don't be worried if it starts to smell like rotten eggs. That's normal. It'll fade.

 

[MarkBastard]

You doing half batches?

 

[blakie21]

You doing half batches?

Should have mentioned batch size. It is for a 21L batch.

Thanks guys. Will be giving it a crack and hopefully it turns out decent.

 

[MarkBastard]

Am I missing something with regards to the extract/grain?

2kg Briess Pilsen Light DME
120g Carapils Malt
Possibly 300g or so dextrose (not sure)

Doesn't look like it'd be enough to make 21L of 4.5%

 

[blakie21]

I put it in the kit/extract spreadsheet.

It did seem a bit low but I figure the spreadsheet has guided me well so far.. please let me know if its incorrect!

 

[MarkBastard]

I just plugged it into that spreadsheet and it does look about right. Looks odd though. I've never really used dry extract as a base before so I'm probably just wrong.

EDIT: That's WITH 300g of Dex.

OG 1.045
FG 1.012 (though I reckon you could beat that surely with the dex)

 

[krusty_oz]

I use W34/70 (or equilavent like Brewcellar european lager yeast) at ~13 all the time and it has always come out clean for me. I normally pitch at ~20 (what ever the wort is at), chill down to 13, leave for ~10 days then ramp it up to 15 for a week and then chill down to 0 for a couple weeks.

 

[blakie21]

I just plugged it into that spreadsheet and it does look about right. Looks odd though. I've never really used dry extract as a base before so I'm probably just wrong.

EDIT: That's WITH 300g of Dex.

OG 1.045
FG 1.012 (though I reckon you could beat that surely with the dex)

Weird. Mine says OG 1.042 FG 1.008.

 

[blakie21]

I have ordered all the stuff for this brew finally. Will be increasing the early hop additions to push for 30+IBU now after trying pilsner urquell and loving it.

One question I had since I mostly see Hallertau and Saaz used together. Will the Saaz and Tettnang go well as late additions? or should I keep the Saaz only for 15 mins and 0 mins.

Or will it work nicely either way just personal pref? Anyone tried that combo of hops.

Also should I be looking at getting another vessel for lagering? or would it be okay to leave it on the yeast for that long? (heavily debated but no decent answer found..)

Cheers guys. I want to make sure that if im waiting 2 months + for a beer that itll turn out the best it can be.

 

[muthead]

Also should I be looking at getting another vessel for lagering? or would it be okay to leave it on the yeast for that long? (heavily debated but no decent answer found..)

Hi Blakie,

I just went to Bunnings and picked up a 20ltr cube and a 25ltr barrell and am using these to cold condition. Also have an additional 25ltr that I'll rack to for bulk priming. I prefer to get it off the yeast to condition, but personal preference i guess.