Kit & Kilo Suppliers Are Con Artists

[Pumpy]

In MY opinion it is unfair suppliers of the Kit and kilos claiming that there malt extract will be similar to well known brands

even Coopers Pale Ale kit bears no resemblance .

they are nothing but rip off Merchants misleading the public for Capitalist gains only.

Enough said !!!

No They are a bunch of F#*%ing W@#$ers :angry: ( did I spell that wrong )

Pumpy ( with Che Guavara hat on )

used to have a poster of him on my bedroom door

Pumpy Guavara

 

[flattop]

Hmm Che did a lot of nasty shit b4 he became a national hero.... that aside i kind of agree
It's sort of bad karma marketing to a flavor that you have no hope of reproducing.

 

[jayandcath]

Pumpy, easy mate.
Has there been a change in your medications lately????
I see a few hot under the collar posts in the last few days, thought you must have run out of beer.

But you are spot on, you go to you LHBS and the old snapper behind the counter sells you all these cans and premixed "boosters" and says "You can't tell the difference" and after I brew it i say "Bullshit!!!" Best thing I did was go to AG and the beers actually taste like beers in the fridge at the local bottle shop. I must get off the soap box now, the wife needs something.

Jay

 

[flattop]

That said, i bought a 3K Hoegaarden clone to try, a mate said it was pretty close.
I like Hoegaarden so i am willing to give it a shot.
I think after that i will move to BIAB.

 

[Adamt]

...?

 

[clean brewer]

Totally f--king agree, my LHBS really gives me the shits(i only go there when i have to), but before I started doing kits and bits and now AG, I bought this kit(about $24) and it was a JAMES BOAGS kit, what a load of shit, this store has nearly every beer at the bottle shop, that can be sold as a K&K as that cetain brand of beer... :angry:

I had got one of these from this store and one from another store and both turned out so shit that I rung the first store and asked what was in the so-called booster pack and all I got as a response was "my wife makes them up" for f--ks sake, these places wonder why they collapse...

Luckily, I got onto this site and got out of that K&K mentality and what these stores push onto people, as I say at work "IT'S NOT FAIR"

All I can say to the potential brewers out there starting off, if you want to replicate commercial crap(corona, vb, xxxx whatever) forget home brewing and just go buy it from the pub, if you want to brew, try brewing beer that has some sort of "COLOUR, FLAVOUR, AROMA" and expand your senses..

Im a Chef(and a good 1) and still today there are people that are spending money on Food that they can still make at home(steak and veg) and paying money for it??????????? Shit, I do food that you cant really do at home and that tastes good aswell, the same as Craftbrewing, I think.... Does my head in most days... :blink:

Cheers

 

[jonocarroll]

@Pumpy - if you're gonna take on this argument against "Coopers Pale" kits, you had better be prepared to take on "chicken" potato chips, "raspberry" cordial and "beef" "noodles". Not to mention "Kentucky" "Fried" "Chicken".

And I'd be wary of someone who had a poster of the butcher of La Cabaa on their door. Ain't capitalism quirky?

 

[brendo]

@Pumpy - if you're gonna take on this argument against "Coopers Pale" kits, you had better be prepared to take on "chicken" potato chips, "raspberry" cordial and "beef" "noodles". Not to mention "Kentucky" "Fried" "Chicken".

Lets not forget Burger rings - I like em but not sure I want a burger that tastes like em...

 

[porky]

Pumpy ( with Che Guavara hat on )

used to have a poster of him on my bedroom door

Pumpy Guavara

I would suggest to you that if you lived in his country you would have much bigger things to bitch about

I live by "buyer beware", but like the fact that I have a choice...the old adage..fu#k me once shame on you fu#k me twice, shame on me


cheers,
Bud

 

[matti]

Pumpy watch out for any kebabs flying back at you.

All merchants are the same, trying to make a buck out of selling you the goods.
I recall the days of my 1st Kit an kilo bought from Manfreds now closed brew shop.
It was not a advertised as a replica but a similar type of beer.
Yep A VB clone and it tasted better and less watery then a Real VB.
Thank good I have progressed since then LOL

Then again I cannot vouch for all vendors of Kit and Kilo as I only tried a handful before partials an AG.

On the other side of thing
I still got my Che Guevara badge from High school and I am a communistic socialist by heart but a capitalist by default.
I blame mankind for all things that I cannot achieve by own means

matti

 

[peas_and_corn]

The other day I spotted my LHBS owner musing about recent sales...

"Ahh, how many "pale ale" kits did I sell today? FOOLS... bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!"

 

[Bribie G]

The tragic thing is that the kit manufacturers 'hobble' them from the start and don't allow them to shine. If 'tricked up' with good grains, some flavouring hops and a better yeast they can produce something nicely drinkable. I've started AG but today whilst clearing out my current stocks of kits n bits and partials my assistant brewer and I knocked over a few pints of a humble Coopers Lager which has been 'enhanced' with three hop additions and a minimash of Bairds Pom lager malt, fermented with a Nottingham yeast and crystal clear with gelatine and polyclar.

As good as anything on tap at the local. However the average K n K punter wouldn't have a clue how to brew something like that unless they frequent forums like this. And most K n K merchants wouldn't have a clue how to advise the brewer apart from the enhancer made up by the missus.

I really think that, rather than blaming the LHBS, we should petition companies such as Coopers to lift their game by improving the flavour and aroma hops, perhaps switch to 3kg kits that incorporate an 'enhancer' and provide a far better yeast. The resulting brew might not win any mini-comps but would surely retain more beginning home brewers by achieving a far better 'out of the box' brewing experience.

Also they might stress temperature control.

 

[jonocarroll]

Also they might stress temperature control.

You mean, you want them to actually have some correct information on the instructions as well as the label? Aren't we pushing our luck a little?

 

[MHB]

Two questions:-

Know any rich home brew shop owners?

How come extract/kit brewers are still wining places, classes and even comps? Yes I mean good ones with trained judges.

Is the industry perfect far from it, like any there are those that try hard and those that dont.

Remember that something like 70% of home brewers in Oz never visit a specialty store (nor AHB), a very large portion of the home brew made is produced to satisfy a desire for cheap alcohol.

People that like beer with flavour are a small minority, Premium Boutique and Craft beer added together (thats Crown, Hahn and all the rest included) account for only about 5% of the beer sold.

Please put your thoughts to those that can change things, I think they will say F%$@ You Pumpy, take a quick reality check.

MHB

 

[dr K]

well, for starters a beer made from malt extract will be different from one made from malt, that is a given and that is why wort kits though expensive to transport and thus expensive to buy are so good compared to gook its.
however to have a go at your LHBS may not be warranted, sure as in all industries there are variations, a number of retailers are regular contributors to this forum, think of that big bloke with the ciggy from Newcastle, great contributor and from all reports a fantastic guy to buy from, and from personal experience a great guy to yak to about all sorts of things, add to that the others who fall under the "Retailer" banner, now not all the retailers here sell kits and kellogs but have some repect for those who do.
I got a bit of criticism (not much and not really criticism I guess) recently for sort of supporting a Canberra LHBS.
Personally I have not bought anything from that shop for over 5 years, others I know also choose to buy elsewhere, whilst I would not endorse that business (how could I) I am not in a position to criticise them either as I have no first hand knowledge. When people ask me where they could (not should) buy from I suggest they contact the local as well as a couple of wel known businesses whose banners are above and make their own decision.
Yes, things have changed a lot in the last 15 years regarding homebrewing and much of that has been as a result of your LHBS, be thankfull not cynical.

K

 

[dr K]

woops
MHB beat me to it...
and did a better job.....

K

 

[daemon]

I wonder who's really to blame here, the suppliers or the clients? Are the suppliers just providing what the clients want? When you look at the sales of XXXX / VB here in Australia, it seems for the most part we (as a country) enjoy a cold, virtually tasteless lager. I'm assuming this is why the kits closely mirror what we already have, but start to branch out into other flavours as well. You can't blame the LHBS / manufacturer for supplying what people want, they're in it to make a living afterall.

You can spit at the K&K mentality if you like, but most of us started there If many have moved onto better beers and ultimately AG brewing, is the K&K stuff really that bad?

 

[clean brewer]

Two questions:-

Know any rich home brew shop owners?

How come extract/kit brewers are still wining places, classes and even comps? Yes I mean good ones with trained judges.

Is the industry perfect far from it, like any there are those that try hard and those that don't.

Remember that something like 70% of home brewers in Oz never visit a specialty store (nor AHB), a very large portion of the home brew made is produced to satisfy a desire for cheap alcohol.

People that like beer with flavour are a small minority, "Premium" Boutique and Craft beer added together (that's Crown, Hahn and all the rest included) account for only about 5% of the beer sold.

Please put your thoughts to those that can change things, I think they will say F%$@ You Pumpy, take a quick reality check.

MHB

Its like any business I know, its up to the store to make the best of their business that they can, if you know the product and the best way to use it and by suggestive selling, its easy to improve the success of your business.. If you can give great advice and show that you do care about what you do, customers love it and will take it on board/or not.. The other people that just do it for cheap piss and havnt visited a HBS, well thats up to them and if they do happen to visit a HBS well then they should hopefully be in a situation to tell these people something different than what they are reading off a can that they dont already know themselves...

Customers put their trust in business's and when they dont deliver(consistantly), what happens, they go belly up.. Shit, their are so many people that buy business's that have no real experience in that field at all(just some $$) and 6 months later, they are broke..

Look at 1 of the Sponsors, havnt really been in it that long but strives to bring everything/anything to brewers and gives great honest advice and service and seems to be one of the most used Homebrew business's?? You dont get that way by talking a whole lot of crap and/or not know what your talking about or what your selling..

Gotta know your product and how to use/sell it..

 

[Effect]

Can the people that actually buy VB and New really tell the difference between them?

Pumpy you aren't in the target market segment for buying cheap kits to make beer at home. You have an understanding of beer - which most people don't.

I am a DJ and have a very good understanding of mixing music. When I go out and listen to djs playing - they are shit - but know one knows.....because they aren't educated...they think it is good.

So wouldn't someone that had **** all idead about beer be happy with a cheap kit they get from a HBS?

The LHBS is catering to a market - just cause you don't exist in that market doesn't mean it shouldn't exist...

 

[kook]

Hmm Che did a lot of nasty shit b4 he became a national hero.... that aside i kind of agree

Most of those wearing shirts with his face on it probably never realised that he was responsible for the death of at least 216 people (link), if not many more. The very anti establishment views they have would have got them prison service or killed when he was around.

In a famous speech in 1961, Che Guevara denounced the very "spirit of rebellion" as "reprehensible."

"Youth must refrain from ungrateful questioning of governmental mandates" commanded Guevara. "Instead, they must dedicate themselves to study, work, and military service."