Kit & Kilo Suppliers Are Con Artists

[Fatgodzilla]

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quote name='Pumpy' date='Dec 11 2008, 09:50 PM' post='387910']
In MY opinion it is unfair suppliers of the Kit and kilos claiming that there malt extract will be similar to well known brands

Caveat Emptor. If you believe everything you read, I have a Harbour Bridge I think you would be interested in.

even Coopers Pale Ale kit bears no resemblance .

I'm pretty certain they have ever said it did. Prove they did and I will believe you.

they are nothing but rip off Merchants misleading the public for Capitalist gains only.

Three arguments here I have a problem with- nothing but rip off merchants ? What, all of them ? Misleading the public ? what as a collective or consortium or some form of cartel ? for capitalist gains only - what, they should be a community service ?

Enough said !!!.

Enough said.

It was Voltaire who said ( loosely translated from his native French) I do not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it. I'll agree with that. But they guillouitined old Voltaire anyway !

 

[trevc]

If new brewers aren't bright enough to do some simple research, they deserve to be left in the dark, drinking kits with boo$ter A and B. What's wrong with retailers and kit producers catering to that market?

We're the minority here. It's not like the average brewer/drinker even cares about what ingredients are in the kit, so long as it produces a beery beverage in the end.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I wonder how much of this is a mismatch between a skilled brewer and taster, and the results achieved by new brewers and/or those new to thinking analytically about beer flavour?

I remember being a new kit brewer - those beers were in retrospect fairly bloody average, but they got better as I got experience, and if I had researched and learned the amount of things I have learned since I embarked upon AG brewing - I suspect that I could have made a very nice kit beer indeed (one of these days I am going to try, just to see if its true)

I think that this is supported by the fact that every now and again, a kit beer pops up and wins categories or even trophies at the comps. They can be made well, and they can be made well to style. So there is no reason that a knowledgeable brewer couldn't take a coopers pale ale kit, apply their knowledge and produce a fair facsimile of an actual Coopers Pale Ale. It might not be exactly the same - but then again its fairly likely that it would be just as close as I could get trying to make an AG clone of the same beer.

I'm not saying that there aren't some useless twats out there running homebrew shops and banking on the fact that a large number of punters couldn't tell a crownie from a coopers red - but there are also good LHBS owners and I suspect that if you handed then one of their own kits, they might just be able to produce a fairly respectable version of the claimed clone beer.

Hardly their fault if the people who buy their kits sometimes dont have the skills to bring them to their full potential.

 

[Murcluf]

Quoting a LHBS owner when I was a new to brewing " If you visit a LHBS you are in a minority of around 10% of those who home brew the other 90% go to the supermarket buy a can and a bag, your here because you want to learn more about the art of making a good beer and not just about making cheap booze" He was right I was and I moved very quickly to extract then partial and then to all grain and he encouraged me to have a go. He never said to me take this can and this booster pack and it will make a beer that tastes like this beer. If anything he would say it will brew a beer to this style ie a stout, pilsner, or IPA. Mind you I have never purchased a booster pack because I could never see how adding that much sugar into a brew would make it taste better.

LHBS have there place, some are good and some are dodgy but isn't that with all thing's in life, especially where man and money are involved.

Option 1: If you are not happy with the LHBS you could start a revolution "Che" and open your own HBS and show everyone how it should done, and the uneducated brewing masses will come flocking to your store to be truly enlightened in the ways of your superior brewing craftsmanship. And the world will be a better place as we all march to the beat your home brewing drum.

Option 2:We can just sit here slinging mud and cutting down anyone who tries to make a living out of a LHBS, any of those who have new ideas on how to do things or anyone who is new to brewing.

Strangely enough I think the so called self confessed Che's of this world will take option 2 nearly every time.

"Viva the LHBS Revolution Che, Viva the Revolution....!!!!" :beerbang:

 

[WilBier]

Making it for the people who drink it.

You know I have had many a long night sampling both beer and wine with a good friend of mine who is a wine maker.
He says the biggest challenge of being a wine maker is to make something that people will drink and enjoy.
You have to make something that appeals to the general masses I.e: commercial crap.
If he made wine for himself to enjoy, the majority of people that tried it would probably spit it out.
Same goes for commercial main-stream music, and commercial replicable beers: un-offensive, plain , ordinary. the list goes on... But people buy it

I think it has been already well said in this thread that the majority of of the K&K market is sold at the supermarkets.
People buying that want cheap, quaffable, alcoholic crap, but don't necessarily take it further.
Hey - it's a good hobby.
But the few of us that get hooked on it go down the road and learn it and research it (thanks to this site) and progress to better and more complex and eventually AG.

And never look back.

Except of course that when we do look back we see that we started out making 'home-brew' from sticky tins with water and yeast, that in comparison to what we make now and what we enjoy now isn't on the same planet.
Except that the people here are here. We aren't in the 90% that buy cheap kits from the supermarket. The majority aren't (any more) in the 10% that buy kits plus 'boosters' from the LHBS for $38 for 18l....
But we did go through those 2 phases, and we are on the other side, now even more interested in making beers.
So to defend the K&K products, and the people that sell them (No I have never seen a rich one either) they got us here.
And when we look back, we realise we were sold lies and sticky crap that in comparison is inferior and ultimately more expensive.

Aah this is fun isn't it

 

[rclemmett]

It's all a little hard to swallow.......

Good quality kits with flavour. The country brewer has kits with real hops in them, which minus the yeast are good IMHO, but are over $18. Most K+K brewers, not those on this site, would never pay that much!

LHBS claiming kits and bit to clone commercial beers. How would you get a customer through the door? The average Australian beer drinker knows NOTHING about beer! How could they, they are loyal to their one brand. The only way you can describe beer to these people is to relate it to something they might have tried.

LHBS being a rip off. These people do provide a service to the community! Could you imagine a more frustrating job for little gain? You get a customer, but then how do you keep them? HBS are like gateway drugs, chances are you'll move onto better stuff or start earning more money and kick the habit.

Kit beers being crap. I think it takes more skill to make a K+K beer good, than to make AG good. I have made good AG and partials, but never good K+K.

and

Im a Chef(and a good 1) and still today there are people that are spending money on Food that they can still make at home(steak and veg) and paying money for it??????????? Shit, I do food that you cant really do at home and that tastes good aswell, the same as Craftbrewing, I think.... Does my head in most days... :blink:

Not trying to pick a fight, but why can't it be made at home. This reads to me that good beer can't be made at home. :blink:

 

[afromaiko]

I have the feeling that some are just selling K&K to help legitimise their main business of hydroponic gear.

 

[captaincleanoff]

Kit beers being crap. I think it takes more skill to make a K+K beer good, than to make AG good. I have made good AG and partials, but never good K+K.

:lol: :lol: thats because K+Ks are shit!

 

[rclemmett]

:lol: :lol: thats because K+Ks are shit!

That's one way of looking at it :icon_cheers:

People keep saying they win awards though.............

 

[staggalee]

Pumpy, you must have been pissed when you made the first post in this thread.
You couldn`t even spell Guevara`s name right.
Some fan. :lol:

stagga.

 

[Frank]

Dont get angry.....Get AG'ing.....
100's of people can't be wrong.

 

[staggalee]

You don`t all think that pumpy HIMSELF might be the con artist here, then? :lol:

stagga.

 

[Katherine]

I can't believe this thread... you guys that bored....

 

[MaestroMatt]

RDWHAHB

LHBS are always going to have ingredients for the novice and advanced brewer alike. So, it shouldn't matter to the advanced brewer if they sell cheap stuff or not. You are never going to buy it because of all the other good quality ingredients that YOU know of.

Everyone has to start somewhere - I will never be ashamed of buying a k+k if it means I can develop my skills in the brewing process. Better to waste a kit than a grain bill.



Matt

 

[clean brewer]

It's all a little hard to swallow.......

Good quality kits with flavour. The country brewer has kits with real hops in them, which minus the yeast are good IMHO, but are over $18. Most K+K brewers, not those on this site, would never pay that much!

LHBS claiming kits and bit to clone commercial beers. How would you get a customer through the door? The average Australian beer drinker knows NOTHING about beer! How could they, they are loyal to their one brand. The only way you can describe beer to these people is to relate it to something they might have tried.

LHBS being a rip off. These people do provide a service to the community! Could you imagine a more frustrating job for little gain? You get a customer, but then how do you keep them? HBS are like gateway drugs, chances are you'll move onto better stuff or start earning more money and kick the habit.

Kit beers being crap. I think it takes more skill to make a K+K beer good, than to make AG good. I have made good AG and partials, but never good K+K.

and

Not trying to pick a fight, but why can't it be made at home. This reads to me that good beer can't be made at home. :blink:

I dont want to fight either, yeh, sorry, I wrote that a little wrong.. Ill think about what I meant to say... :unsure:

 

[Swinging Beef]

I think there are some mighty fine K&K kits about.
And, back to my favorite analogy, there are some great pasta sauces available off the shelf.
Im likely to throw down a coopers or esb kit in the next week.

 

[antains]

When I go to my LHBS in Greensborough, I am more interested in looking at what is beyond the can. I've picked up a few specialty cans to try them, but I really didn't expect them to be identical. I'm enjoying the Newcastle Brown at the moment, but I know it is absolutely nothing like the original.

This is reminding me of the commercial beers that get brewed under licence, such as Heineken, Stella Artois and Guinness. With Guinness in particular, the adage goes that the Guinness gets better the closer you get to Ireland.

Maybe it's that experience that lowered my expectations with clones.

Now to argue, dissect, agree and just have some fun.

Hmm Che did a lot of nasty shit b4 he became a national hero.... that aside i kind of agree
It's sort of bad karma marketing to a flavor that you have no hope of reproducing.

It's because he did that sh*t that he became a hero for Cuba.

...
But you are spot on, you go to you LHBS and the old snapper behind the counter sells you all these cans ...

...think of that big bloke with the ciggy from Newcastle, ...

Hmmm, these descriptions match that of the guy at Heidelberg.

Can the people that actually buy VB and New really tell the difference between them?

Strangely, yes. At least in Victoria and New South Wales.

Most of those wearing shirts with his face on it probably never realised that he was responsible for the death of at least 216 people (link), if not many more. The very anti establishment views they have would have got them prison service or killed when he was around.

I once saw a guy getting into a Porsche wearing one of these t-shirts. I didn't have a chance to see if he was being ironical. I suspect he just didn't understand, though.

...
Option 1: If you are not happy with the LHBS you could start a revolution "Che" and open your own HBS and show everyone how it should done, and the uneducated brewing masses will come flocking to your store to be truly enlightened in the ways of your superior brewing craftsmanship. And the world will be a better place as we all march to the beat your home brewing drum.

Actually, Che was somewhat of a mercenary, in as much as he joined Castro's revolution. When he'd had enough of being involved in the changes that took place in Cuba, he travelled a lot and ended up in Bolivia, hoping to achieve the same contribution in reshaping that country and instilling Communisim. That didn't work, but the bullet that hit him did.

...thats because K+Ks are shit!

Has it been 6 months already? :lol:

...

Everyone has to start somewhere - I will never be ashamed of buying a k+k if it means I can develop my skills in the brewing process. Better to waste a kit than a grain bill.

...

+1. Absolutely.

Cheers,
Ant.

 

[jimbo82]

I have to say that K+K is the only way you can introduce someone into homebrewing. If you start talking about AG, pH and mash schedules their eyes glaze over. But when mates drink my standard Coopers Pale Kit + BE2 and I tell em they make it themselves in half an hour, two cartons worth for $18 their eyes light up. I think we need to encourage the K+Kers to use filtered water, good cleaners and sanitisers (I really like the brewshield cleaner and no-rinse sanitisers) and try and keep them under 25 degrees in the spare room (not in the bloody shed!). If you can get someone to put that amount of effort in, the next step is definitely grain bills and hops. You have to walk before you can run, goodness knows I did. After a few K+K's perfecting temperature and finding the right cleaners and sanitisers, the next step was AG to get a better reult. And it didn't cost much to go BIAB as I already had the fermenters, kegs and tools from K+K.

My only complaint is that the store I buy my cleaning gear from has nothing for AG and is a total rip off for kegging gear, but at least I get to support the little guys for that stuff!!! If I owned a store I would DEFINITELY be running a once a month BIAB demo so that people can see how easy it is. Jeez I wished I owned a HBS...

 

[quantocks]

Jeez I wished I owned a HBS...

I'm fairly sure they don't make much money from people buying bulk sacks of grain but rather the booster kits, replica beers, etc. I'm quite happy with my Coopers Pale Ale, it says on the can "We got our brewers to make a similar styled beer" so I don't see how they are lying sacks of poo as has been mentioned.

 

[Katherine]

I think it's called marketing....