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Kit And Kilo To Partial

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Orangewhip

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Hi all. I've done 6 extract kits now and whilst they taste different they all have the home brew taste or "twang" or whatever you want to call it.I've brewed draught, lager, cerveza, bitter and cannot escape it, tried different yeasts, let sit for 2 weeks in the fermenter etc but the aftertaste is still there.I've decided I'm going to partial mash and add grains to a cascade draught kit, will this kill the aftertaste? I'm not keen on the full grain stuff as I don't have the equipment, steep by step I suppose.Will partial mash (ie some grains boiled on the stove and adding some hops) relieve me of my problem? I'm not keen on full grain.Also any partial mash recipes for cascade draught appreciated.TaBrendon
 

kelbygreen

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YES problems.

1. You dont BOIL! grain you mash it at a stable temp for 1 hour
2. a partial is using base grain (needs to be mashed for a hour at say 65deg stable)
3. a kits and bits is adding crystal malt (some can be steeped and this involves keeping the grain at around 65deg for 30mins but temps are not critical people even steep them in cold water overnight)
4. if you are going to do a true partial it will take you as long as a AG brew as you have to MASH the grain at the temp for 1 hour then sparge and boil like a normal AG but you are only using small amounts of the grain as you will use a kit or extract for the rest.

I think partial is a waste of time and you wont loose the kit twang I tried it. I when kits- kits and bits- extract- partial- AG and only when I hit AG the twang went away the partial I only done 1 but for the whole effort its going to take you the same amount of time to pump out a AG. Yeah the twang was heaps less but still there I must have super sensitivity to it or maybe mine are your process is different from others?? not sure but I cant see what I was doing different to others
 

KingKong

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Hi all. I've done 6 extract kits now and whilst they taste different they all have the home brew taste or "twang" or whatever you want to call it.I've brewed draught, lager, cerveza, bitter and cannot escape it, tried different yeasts, let sit for 2 weeks in the fermenter etc but the aftertaste is still there.I've decided I'm going to partial mash and add grains to a cascade draught kit, will this kill the aftertaste? I'm not keen on the full grain stuff as I don't have the equipment, steep by step I suppose.Will partial mash (ie some grains boiled on the stove and adding some hops) relieve me of my problem? I'm not keen on full grain.Also any partial mash recipes for cascade draught appreciated.TaBrendon

I dont think you need to move to partials to stop the 'twang' home brew taste. Elaborate on your methods and Im sure some of the more experienced brewers will pick up on what you are doing wrong.

Simple advice I have followed mainly regarding temperature control have dramatically improved my beer.
 

kelbygreen

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I think for me it was a time factor as I couldnt let them sit there for months before I drank them lol usually 2 weeks in bottle I would start and all done in 3 weeks lol
 

waggastew

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I currently brew partials which represent the best use of limited time/space/equipment for me at the moment. As soon as my kids are old enough not to want to live under my feet I will probably start sniffing around AG.

You can however brew good beers with partial mash, even with small boils. My AIPA just got a 4th (out of 25) in the American Ale category at the NSWAHC. Over the last year my beers have got MUCH better, mostly through simple improvements. Most relate to yeast health/numbers and fermentation, all of them are well documented ways to brew better beer:

1. Use extract/partial mash rather than pre-hopped tins
2. Use yeast nutrient
3. Aerate your wort by using a fish pump and stone (shaking the sh&t out of it) before pitching yeast
4. Pitch alot of yeast, my standard amount is the slurry from a 3.5L starter
5. Control temps to the cooler side of guidelines
6. Crash chill the beer before bottling
7. Keep everything CLEAN!

The active fermentation phase of most (ale) brews now only takes about 3-4 days, instead of 2 weeks previously. They are drinkable as soon as they are carbed as apposed to needing a few months to condition (what I now realise was time for the faults to fade).

Overall, partials are worth a go but try to spend sometime working on other areas as well.

Stew
 

manticle

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Adding grain can help freshen up a kit.

There's a number of other things you should do too though.

Thirsty Boy wrote a great article some time ago for his FIL I believe - it's a very good summary of methods of making sure your kit beer is the best it can be. Unfortunately it is no longer hosted at the link I have for it. Maybe, if he sees this thread, he will be kind enough to post it.

Meanwhile the basis of it is:

Recipe/ingredients:

1. Fresh kits. Check the dates on the cans, buy fresh, even if there's half price out of date kits in a bargain bin.
2. Different FRESH yeast that's been well stored.
3. Dextrose or malt extract instead of (or at least as well as) cheap table sugar.

Fermentation:

1. Temperature control: consistent and between 18-22 for most ales and between 7-12 for most lagers (using a proper lager yeast)
2. Ferment right out (forget weeks - use a hydrometer) then give the beer a bit of extra conditioning time. After say and extra 3-5 days at normal temps after hitting final gravity, try resting the whole fermenter in a cold fridge for 3 more days.

General:

Make sure everything is super clean, not scratched, rinsed of any detergents and well sanitised, preferably with a no rinse sanitiser.

Adding Grain, once you've done this (and steeping or mashing then boiling the resultant liquor only) will add a new dimension. So will hops but make sure your basic processes are all good before you start tweaking.
 

dammag

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When you say extract kits do you mean extract brewing or kit brewing. Extract brewing you add all your own hops where with kit brewing the kit is already hopped but you can add more hops.

I wouldn't say my brews have a twang to them. I generally use a Coopers Pale Ale as a base, steep say 250gm of Crystal Malt, strain, bring the resulting liquid up to a SG of 1040 using LDME and boil some extra hops depending on what I am after. I also generally use US- 05 yeast now and try to brew at 18 - 20 deg.


I am still experimenting but adding a small amount of say cascade pellets for a 20 min boil does wonders to lift a kit brew.



Damian.
 

kelbygreen

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I put it down to drinking to early as I used to use fresh kits or extract and brew with us05 mainly at 18c and always got twang. I did drink them as soon as they where carbonated so could be why. I did brew a lager that was 3 weeks ferment and 2 weeks CC and 3 weeks in bottle and it is still the best lager I made but again even AG I rush them along with only 2 kegs and every 2-3 weeks I get to brew it makes it hard to store beer
 

Rod

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In my opinion


you should not drink your brew less than 6 weeks

and better still after 3 months

I find with the heavier brews that I leave them for 6 months

I have a Russian Imperial Stout that is now 117 weeks old and is drinking well , like a port wine
 

Orangewhip

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Thanks for the responses. Presently I do temperature control at 20 degrees, I sanitize and clean, and all the things mentioned however maybe I just need to let it sit longer!

As an aside I was discussing this with a mate today and he said that he used to boil the pre hopped LME for 20 mins, then boil some grain and pride of ringwood hops for 60 mins and then Fuggles and then mix it all together, let cool and pitch.

It was stated by Kelbygreen that the grain should not be boiled, and Im not sure what boiling the LME would acheive?

Ill stick with your advice but what is acheived by boiling the grain and LME?


ta
 

kelbygreen

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you will extract tannins if you heat grain over 80 deg. Also when you mash grain you control the fermentability of the grain so if you mash at 65 deg and you get a FG of say 1.010 if you mashed at 67 you will prob end up with FG of like 1.013 or the likes as its less fermentable so it will be sweeter, This is another reason not to boil grain.

boiling the extract is to get hop utilization, its best to boil hops in a gravity of about 1.040 thats 100g of dry malt into 1lt of water. You are also better off boiling the extract to sanitize it.
 

Liam_snorkel

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O-whip, Kelby was trying to say that the cracked grains are to be taken out of the liquid before boiling it.

In addition to what had already been said:

To improve your kit beers, have a read of this article:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

If you have a home brew shop nearby, get some decent yeast instead of the stuff under the lid.
US-05 and Nottingham are fairly failsafe for ales and if your are fermenting at 20deg as you say.

Do a bit more reading on this forum (use the google search function at the top right of this page) searching for key words like "steeping grains"

Once you're confident that you get the idea, Download Ianh's spreadsheet to help design your own kits & bits brews, and away you go!
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=29655
 

Bizier

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If your fermentation is good and your ingredients are fresh, then drinking fresh is best (unless it is one of the few styles to age out - which I do not recommend brewing until you have sorted the first stuff out).

ED: I did a steep on my third beer and a mash on my fifth, and the difference completely convinced me never to look back. If you are going to do a small partial mash, you can totally shorten it to a 15 minute mash at 70 degrees C, you don't need to fine-tune the body of the beer that way yet, just mash high and fast.
 

Orangewhip

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Thanks for the reply's chaps. I'm adopting the keep it simple stupid approach after reading for hours tell me if this will taste ok; Traditional ale grain half kg, I will crack slightly and steep for one hour in a bag at 65 deg for one hour. I will then remove grain and add the pride of ring wood hops to the wort and boil 60 mins then with 10 mins to go I will add the fuggles.I will boil cascade draught spicy ghost seperately for 20 mins and add half kg of dextrose and half kg of light malt extract and then throw the whole lot in the fermenter. Chill and add yeast at 24 degrees. Am I on the right track?Ta
 

Liam_snorkel

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Kind of.
The 60min POR addition plus the pre-hopped kit could make it fairly bitter.
Check out the above mentioned spreadsheet and plug your ingredients in.
 

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