Kettle To Cube Transfer Problems

[Truman42]

Hello fellow HBers.

I finished my latest brew yesterday afternoon adding a 1/4 tablet of Irish Moss and did a whirlpool at the end of the boil. After a 20 min wait I started to drain the wort into my cube.

However I noticed quite a lot of hotbreak was being transferred into the cube and the hop debris was still moving around in the kettle as if convection currents were causing everything to stir up.

After draining half of it I had to sanitise a spoon, whirlpool again, wait 20 mins and continue draining. So I hope I didnt risk infection by doing this.

With my first ever brew, which I did in a pot, I had a perfect cone of trub in my kettle. But since using my urn Ive never had much luck with the whirlpooling and my trub is always broken up all over the bottom and most of it gets sucked into the cube.

Could residual heat in the element be causing these currents and breaking up my trub off the bottom?
Any other earn BIABers experienced this before?

Heres a video clip of what Im talking about.

Video clip

 

[Silo Ted]

Youre cubing, who cares if you dont get a good trub cone.

You really need to just go with the flow, bon jovi. Brewing isnt meant to be so perplexing or as confusing as you appear to find it.

 

[kelbygreen]

I would say your element is making it take longer for the convection to stop. If you can wait longer befor whirlpooling then you should be right. I dont have a urn but I would say the element prob stops the cone from forming a bit as it would add resistance. But thats only a guess lol. My 80lt pot gets a better cone then my 50lt keggle, and the keggle better then a 20lt pot. so maybe thats just the mass of the liquid.

 

[bignath]

It sounds like you assumption is spot on fella.

Maybe try waiting a little bit of time before beginning your whirlpool.

Once my boil is done, i wait ten minutes or so, (not incredibly accurate i know...) then whirlpool, and then wait another ten or so minutes before draining. Works well for me, but your setup may in fact be quite different.

Im sure the problem is just time and temp.

Im using a 50lt keg as my boiler, what are you using?

 

[Truman42]

Youre cubing, who cares if you dont get a good trub cone.

You really need to just go with the flow, bon jovi. Brewing isnt meant to be so perplexing or as confusing as you appear to find it.

But mate, Im pulling a lot of hop debris and hotbreak into my cube which from what Ive read on here, a little hotbreak is okay but I seem to have shitloads of it going into the cube.

 

[jyo]

When you whirlpool, you have to wait for the convections to subside before you whirlpool. Depending on ambient temps etc, this can take me any where between 10 to 25 mins. Then get a good whirlpool going- stir for up to a minute, even longer- and then walk away and make sure your cubes are sanitised etc.

As long as it goes into the cube above 80', you will be right, so you don't need to rush the process if the trub worries you.

 

[Truman42]

Im using a 20 litre urn and am whirlpooling as soon as I cut the power.

I might try your method Nath of waiting before whirlpooling.

Could I just no chill in the urn by covering the top with gladwrap and leaving the wort in there overnight before transferring to a sanitised cube the next day? Maybe that would help too.

 

[Silo Ted]

And the **** settles into the bottom, right ? With 1/2 tablet of WF, and a little bit of a whirl (for a poor cone) at flameout, and factoring in that you will stop the cube transfer when it hits tap level, your trub into the cube should settle to below the cubes tap-line. When you consider anything still suspended or roused up in the fermenter transfer, its still going to be below the final tap-line when its ready to bottle.

RELAX ************ :icon_cheers:

 

[Truman42]

When you whirlpool, you have to wait for the convections to subside before you whirlpool. Depending on ambient temps etc, this can take me any where between 10 to 25 mins. Then get a good whirlpool going- stir for up to a minute, even longer- and then walk away and make sure your cubes are sanitised etc.

As long as it goes into the cube above 80', you will be right, so you don't need to rush the process if the trub worries you.

Thanks mate I didnt know that. I always whirlpooled at flameout. And only stirred briefly when I did. Will give all that a go and see if it improves things.
I always sanitise my cubes and rinse with boiling water.

 

[Silo Ted]

When you whirlpool, you have to wait for the convections to subside before you whirlpool. Depending on ambient temps etc, this can take me any where between 10 to 25 mins. Then get a good whirlpool going- stir for up to a minute, even longer- and then walk away and make sure your cubes are sanitised etc.

As long as it goes into the cube above 80', you will be right, so you don't need to rush the process if the trub worries you.

Rule of thumb is when you start a good whirl, it should still be spinning after smoking a full cigarette.

And if you dont smoke, youre a lousy brewer.

 

[Silo Ted]

I always sanitise my cubes and rinse with boiling water.

Waste of time. Use no-rinse food grade sanitiser. $40 worth of iodofor will last you for years

 

[Truman42]

RELAX ************ :icon_cheers:

Im relaxed mate... :icon_cheers:

I was of the opinion that hotbreak in the wort during fermentation could cause off flavours etc, if not then yeh its not so bad because your right it all sits below tap level anyway when bottling.
cheers and thanks for the help..

 

[Truman42]

Waste of time. Use no-rinse food grade sanitiser. $40 worth of iodofor will last you for years

I use defender which is no rinse but just liked to rinse with boiling water anyway.

 

[Truman42]

Rule of thumb is when you start a good whirl, it should still be spinning after smoking a full cigarette.

And if you dont smoke, youre a lousy brewer.

LOL yeh well I do smoke and usually have one once whirlpooling is started.. :icon_cheers:

 

[Silo Ted]

I use defender which is no rinse but just liked to rinse with boiling water anyway.

]

oooooooh-kaaaaaaay

 

[mje1980]

Truman, i never worry too much about trub in the cubes. I use koppaflok if im doing a light coloured beer, and it never seems to worry the finished product if trub gets in the fermentor. My koelsh is about as clear as you can get, and i did the same method. I tried waiting 15 mins or so then cubing, but it just seemed to add 15 minutes to my brewday, and not much else haha.

Cheers

 

[bignath]

And if you dont smoke, youre a lousy brewer.

You'll also need to steal invest in a top quality milk crate.

Every one knows you need a milk crate to be a decent brewer. Colour is very important. NEVER under any circumstance use a red one. They are really gay, and will mean your beer will be ****. Only use the black ones. The red ones will mean a faster brewday but you'll sacrifice quality in the end product.

You don't really need to use the crate per se, it just needs to be somewhere in your brewery. Mine supports my HLT.

my beers have damatically increased in quality, and my friends can tell the difference now that my milk crate is black.

Spray painting a red one black is also not an option.

 

[black_labb]

I've been cubing without whirlpooling or anything and suck up every last bit from the kettle. I let it settle in the cube over a few days and syphon out of the cube. I've never had any issues. I very rarely cold condition, use finings or anything to get a clear beer but I'm happy with my clarity, though I bottle my beers which can make a difference.

Don't worry about the break you're getting.

 

[manticle]

I prefer to keep hot break out of my cube. I don't believe it's to do with clarity (although hot break can supposedly contribute to haze) - more staling compounds and off flavours.

Truman - I'll show you how I whirlpool at the case swap but the advice to wait before whirlpooling then wait again is sound.

I owe it to Fents who showed me the method. Works a treat.

 

[pk.sax]

I prefer to keep hot break out of my cube. I don't believe it's to do with clarity (although hot break can supposedly contribute to haze) - more staling compounds and off flavours.

Truman - I'll show you how I whirlpool at the case swap but the advice to wait before whirlpooling then wait again is sound.

I owe it to Fents who showed me the method. Works a treat.

I think this is one thing I was totally missing out on until now. My friend's wort, using ZERO whirlfloc/irish moss is clearer than mine... Actually, its clear enough to read through. Good ol 3v brewer, nothing fancy. I noticed he gave it a good whirlpool, put the lid on and walked away for a while, when we looked at it again it was clear, the trub was in a definite cone.

I wonder if using flowers will still leave me a good 'cone'. Last time it was a nice 'cake'. I think it soaked up a LOT of wort.