Ken's BIAB Witbier

[KenJohnson]

Hi gents,

I've become interested in the traditional Belgian Wit style, the kind that employs half barley malt and half raw wheat. Now this is my first AG brew, so will probably be a bit hit and miss.
Basically, what sort of things should I look out for when mashing with that much raw wheat?

I may also need some advice on water volumes, and getting the right ph level. Im gonna use a converted keg as my kettle so if anyone uses the same thing can you tell me how much water you use (for grain absorption/evaporation, etc)

cheers guys, As soon as I can get this thing planned out, I'll make a start on it. I'm hoping sometime next week

 

[KenJohnson]

Ok so I thought i'd put up my recipe idea, (minus the mash details)

2.5 Kg German Pilsner
2.25 Kg Raw wheat
250 gm quick oats

30 gm saaz - 60min boil
20 gm coriander seeds - 5 min boil

possibly yeast harvested from a bottle. (does Hoegaarden work for this?)

 

[wbosher]

Using raw wheat, no idea. Advice on water volumes and just general recipe planning, download Brewmate (it's free) or Beersmith (it's not). As long as you know basically what you're doing, and I'm assuming you've already done some research on AG brewing, they really help to create recipes.

 

[seamad]

Whatever your normal efficiency is knock it back by @ 15% as the raw wheat buggers efficiency, but it's cheap as anyway. I've added various citrus skins and found the dried tangerine you get at asian stores pretty tasty. If that's a 19L batch maybe scale the coriander back a bit as it can take over a bit.

 

[manticle]

I've never made a wit, nor used raw wheat so I can't answer your question.

However a forum search and a google search using the terms 'mashing raw wheat' and 'cereal mash raw wheat' will give you some experiential info. Also do a search for 'bullshead witbier' on this forum.

Hope that helps.

PS. My understanding is that it doesn't need either a cereal mash or pre-cooking (would defeat the purpose of using raw I guess) but the term brings up other people asking similar questions and the subsequent answers.

 

[seamad]

Just reread your first post and see it's your first AG brew, congrats. Get brewmate as mentioned or there is a specific BIAB spreadsheet, can't remember what it's called, you can get it from the BIAB forum if it's still @.I used that one first as it's easy to use, followed by brewmate, but now use beersmith, but it's a bit complicated to start with.
As far as efficiency, probably go @ 60 % tops, other brews with Biab should get you 70-75 % efficiency.
I step mash wits but you want good attenuation, so mash pretty low, 64 max i would guess.
You don't need to worry about mash pH yet, get your other brew numbers under control first. You could add 2-3 % acidulated malt to give a bit of zing.

 

[KenJohnson]

thanks guys! Well I just downloaded Brew mate, it looks pretty good. Its gonna be a 23 L batch. when I get this going I'll take pictures of everthing as im going
ok so i'll get onto brew mate tonight and crunch the numbers.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Seamad and others have given good advice. Raw wheat is a mongrel to crush. Do it twice and basically add a kg to what you think you need (for a 19L batch). Your OG will shock you otherwise.

Seamad is right with the coriander, dial it back a bit. Use either Wyeast 3944 Belgian Wit or forbidden fruit. I've used 3944 exclusively for my wits. I would also up the oats to maybe 500g. The citrus is a tough one - I've used a few different things but have never really hit the hoogaarden taste. I haven't been able to get the curacao orange peel ..... I need to try harder...
Good luck - Nice first brew.
Cheers
BBB

 

[Nick JD]

Another good yeast for Wits is 3522.

 

[manticle]

Yes Don't **** around trying to reculture for your first AG. I may not have made a wit but I have used the FF yeast and it will give you the flavours you are chasing. 3522 isn't far off either.

Forbidden Fruit from Wyeast is the hoegaarden strain allegedly (and has a similar vibe to my palate).

 

[Nick JD]

3944 and corriander is a minefield. Both can be difficult to get right.

It's not just a slaptogether thing. The corriander is best left out unless you know what you are doing or it'll taste like celery beer.

3944 can be a temperamental bitch. Treat her well or you'll have issues.

 

[KenJohnson]

thanks for the info guys!

 

[KenJohnson]

ok so going over some other things people have posted. A step mash seems to be the most common with wheat based beers... they all have either an acid rest (about 40C) or a protein rest (about 50C)... followed by rest in the low/mid 60's, then another one in the low 70's, then finally mashout (78C).

seem like a lot of steps, which of course i'm quite happy to do

I like the sounds of this sort of thing:

50C - 20mins
64C - 30mins
72C - 30mins
78C - 10mins

thoughts anyone?

 

[seamad]

Step mashes are a bit of work with BIAB, which is the main reason I've changed systems.I wouldn't like to do a multi step BIAB as it's a lot of work, If doing a step I'd do:
53/10
62/40
72/30
78/10.
Having said that i just ramp from 53 to mashout over 2-3 hours, that's the advantage of a pid control.
You could try a single infusion with the raw wheat but iirc that needs to be @ 68C to get the wheat to gelatinize. I think some commercial US breweries do this.
Other options are to use torrified wheat and do a single step 63-64, or a mix of malted wheat/raw wheat 50/50 . Others have used all malted wheat and chucked some flour in at end of boil.
Being your first BIAB I'd go the single infusion just to keep things a little simpler, then try the step approach when you've got a handle on your equipment and compare the results.

 

[KenJohnson]

hmmmm interesting thought, i dont want it to be overly complicated as you said.. I still want to get that raw wheat taste/cloudiness, so maybe i'll do half raw and half torrified. then just mash at 64C

so you'd still do a mashout?

Like this?
64 for 60mins
78 for 10 mins

just read on the beersmith article, just using torrified wheat will still give the raw wheat flavour but easily works in single infusion mashes...interesting

 

[wbosher]

First AG brew, I'd go for a 90 minute mash, and a mashout. For the mashout you don't need to steep, just rise to 78ish (stirring constantly) and then lift the bag.

64 sounds a bit low to me, but then I'm not familiar with the style.

 

[KenJohnson]

yeh cool a long mash sounds good to me, make sure that wheat gets time to do its thing.

In other "experimental brewing" news... I just "torrified" some raw wheat! at least I think I did
got a cup or so of raw wheat, heated it in a big frying pan (quite hot) until it started making a popping sound. the grains look a little bit puffier but are still the same colour. is this what torrified wheat is, essentially? it was fun anyway

 

[seamad]

is this what torrified wheat is, essentially?

That's it, never thought of making it, could do it in my coffee roaster but would take a while.
There has been some discussion on whether a mashout step is required in biab. If you want an easy mashout you can do a dunk sparge in a bucket
3 % acidulated malt will improve the beer too.

 

[wbosher]

Mash out for BIAB. Thanks for finding that Liam, would have taken me ages.

 

[Nick JD]

Mash schedules need not be complicated. This beer is all about yeast management (pitching right and holding temp) and spices.

It's a really difficult beer to get right. Not one I'd choose for my first!