Kegs, New vs second hand.

[Danielscott26]

I recently brought two secondhand kegs and one sealed perfect but one didn't. I ended up buying a new lid for it and its fine but with the new lid and seal kit that took the price up to $105 for a dinged up second hand keg.
I brought a new keg on Thursday from Hoppy Days brewing supplies and i wish id brought them all brand new. For only a few extra dollars you have a brand new shiny keg.

 

[Benn]

Why is it that nobody uses CUB kegs? are they just totally unsuited to homebrew use due to cost/availability of compatible components?

 

[zeggie]

I've bought 1 good keg, and 2 that needs new posts and seals. In hindsight I should've just bought new.

 

[MastersBrewery]

This.
The biggest mistake in all of my brewing career was buying "reconditioned" kegs. Sorry Ross. I just bought somebody else's problem.

Yes, you can buy replacement parts that fit *most of the time* but the last thing you want to be doing is swapping around leaking lids, PRV's or liquid out posts when you've got a full keg of beer. I bought 1 brand new keg 4 years ago and it's still tight as a nuns nasty.

My point was I wouldn't use corny style kegs but D couples, more equipment for cleaning but way less places for leaks to occur or parts to replace there's a good reason they are the most popular commercial coupling.

MB

 

[lael]

MB, is there a particular reason you would go D type couplers over A type?

My point was I wouldn't use corny style kegs but D couples, more equipment for cleaning but way less places for leaks to occur or parts to replace there's a good reason they are the most popular commercial coupling.

MB

 

[///]

A type are the best option for a number of technical reasons. I have worked with a German spear supplier for a number of years, working on the approval cycle thru cub and lion Nathan successfully.

Main reason to go d's is probably height. The kegs are 150mm lower and fit in keg fridges better.

Most prob do not go commercial kegs due to cleaning. Bit of McGuyvering can see you get there

 

[dicko]

Why is it that nobody uses CUB kegs? are they just totally unsuited to homebrew use due to cost/availability of compatible components?

Apart from the height and cleaning issue that has been mentioned the CUB kegs are actually owned by the brewery and to have one in your possession is illegal.

 

[Camo6]

Apart from the height and cleaning issue that has been mentioned the CUB kegs are actually owned by the brewery and to have one in your possession is illegal.

Is it illegal? If you buy a keg of commercial beer don't you pay a deposit for the return of the keg? Is there a deadline to return it by? I knew a bloke who would go through about 12-15 kegs a year and would take them all back at the end of year. So, if you bought a keg of beer and didn't modify it, is there a clause in the conditions of sale preventing you from refilling it or holding on to it for a while? I'm sure there would be but it would be interesting to know.

 

[Fylp]

I've 3 pin locks I converted over to ball lock. All ex coke. One is Italian, another is Spartanburg, the other is Cornelius. All from one seller on eBay, they all were said to have leaking posts and did. Each keg worked out about $35-40 (inc postage) and then $17 to convert with posts and uni poppets. The best I could find elsewhere for reco was 90 or 120 for new. There was some risk, though I'll get another of the same in a few weeks.

As for fixed prv, I just push in the poppet.

Phil

 

[Grott]

For only a few extra dollars you have a brand new shiny keg.

Even new, 12 litre kegs are hard to come by. The slightly used Italian kegs recently purchased were $85 each cheaper for the same new ones here in Australia. (The exchange rate and postage make them uneconomical to purchase overseas particularly from America). I will agree that generally more common 19 litre kegs are better off new unless at real bargain prices.
Cheers

 

[dicko]

Is it illegal? If you buy a keg of commercial beer don't you pay a deposit for the return of the keg? Is there a deadline to return it by? I knew a bloke who would go through about 12-15 kegs a year and would take them all back at the end of year. So, if you bought a keg of beer and didn't modify it, is there a clause in the conditions of sale preventing you from refilling it or holding on to it for a while? I'm sure there would be but it would be interesting to know.

Actually a good point Camo.
I would imagine that while the keg had brewery beer in it then it may be OK to hold it for an extended period of time.
Isn't it a fact that when a person hires a keg for home serving they are really only hiring it from a pub and not the actual brewery.

It would be a lot cheaper to buy the appropriate keg than to use a brewery owned keg and then have to hire a solicitor to defend you should the brewery actually wanted to take you to court. :lol: h34r:

 

[///]

Actually a good point Camo.
I would imagine that while the keg had brewery beer in it then it may be OK to hold it for an extended period of time.
Isn't it a fact that when a person hires a keg for home serving they are really only hiring it from a pub and not the actual brewery.

It would be a lot cheaper to buy the appropriate keg than to use a brewery owned keg and then have to hire a solicitor to defend you should the brewery actually wanted to take you to court. :lol: h34r:

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

 

[Camo6]

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

 

[Grott]

and I could name some commercial beers that would take you years to drink!

 

[Kev R]

I have a new and a 2nd hand balllock. The new one has lap joints welded that leave a unwelded joint inside. I'm carefull to not leave it empty or open if it got infected beer it would be difficult to sanitatise crap traped under the lapjoint.
The second hand Pepsi has proper full penetration but welds.

 

[MastersBrewery]

MB, is there a particular reason you would go D type couplers over A type?

They're available in1/6 bbl and circlip D type can be pulled down without specialist tools and are as easy to re assemble, prices from stout tanks are US$284 for 4 of them leaving a good bit of room for freight. A bulk buy would probably get them cheaper but import duties and GST would then apply.

A type are the best option for a number of technical reasons. I have worked with a German spear supplier for a number of years, working on the approval cycle thru cub and lion Nathan successfully.

Main reason to go d's is probably height. The kegs are 150mm lower and fit in keg fridges better.

Most prob do not go commercial kegs due to cleaning. Bit of McGuyvering can see you get there

No way I could lift a full 50L keg these days
Not doubting anything you've said, I have worked with both in commercial bars. A keg washer would be a must and pulling 1 in 5 spears to inspect. I haven't had to pull down and rebuild an A type but either way both these type couplers are in wide use within the commercial industry, taps and parts are and will be available for decades to come, the same can't be said for cornie type kegs.

 

[dicko]

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

Yep... rent it from a pub...legally it is not the pubs equipment to rent...
Rent it from a micro...then it is more than likely a legal agreement with the micro and the consumer, in which case the rental details including the extent of hire as in time need to be clearly stated.

The OP is probably never going to use a keg from a brewery or a micro, so from my point of view, from the condition of some of the second hand kegs that I have seen become available of late, I would probably buy new ones

 

[///]

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

Been covered to Death Part II. You buy the beer in the keg. Add on a Euro 85 per keg purchase. If you were the Coogee Bay Hotel which does 500 kegs a week in peak, what would you do with all those kegs? Ahhh ... ummm ...

There is no purchase/rental agreement, drink the beer, send back the keg. Been covered to death Part III ...

 

[Camo6]

Been covered to Death Part II. You buy the beer in the keg. Add on a Euro 85 per keg purchase. If you were the Coogee Bay Hotel which does 500 kegs a week in peak, what would you do with all those kegs? Ahhh ... ummm ...

There is no purchase/rental agreement, drink the beer, send back the keg. Been covered to death Part III ...

Not really sure I understood your response. Why would a high turnover pub want to retain empty kegs?

So, in regards to my question, if you buy 50l of beer (that comes in a keg) and retain a receipt, there's no legal agreement that states how quickly it must be consumed and returned? Cool. Curiosity sated. No need to look up this trilogy you mention.

 

[Tahoose]

Getting back to the original topic.

First keg I bought was second hand, seal kit was free so I chucked on that, soon enough I realised that the lid was stuffed so I bought a new lid. Now around the $100 mark.

Then came in the vic keg bulk but (godsend). So I got 3 x 19's and 3 x 9's. As was said earlier, these kegs come with a 5yr warranty. If you look after them they should last for at least a couple of decades, not one problem here.

I also have bought an A type keg and a couple of D's (scrap yard). And lobbed onto a couple of bargains for couplers. These couplers have threads that are suitable for a ball lock conversion, so they work in with my system. As a home brewer I find the A type kegs easier to use in a home operation. But not as practice as the cornies.

Buy once, buy well. You won't regret it.