Kegs, New vs second hand.

[dicko]

Is it illegal? If you buy a keg of commercial beer don't you pay a deposit for the return of the keg? Is there a deadline to return it by? I knew a bloke who would go through about 12-15 kegs a year and would take them all back at the end of year. So, if you bought a keg of beer and didn't modify it, is there a clause in the conditions of sale preventing you from refilling it or holding on to it for a while? I'm sure there would be but it would be interesting to know.

Actually a good point Camo.
I would imagine that while the keg had brewery beer in it then it may be OK to hold it for an extended period of time.
Isn't it a fact that when a person hires a keg for home serving they are really only hiring it from a pub and not the actual brewery.

It would be a lot cheaper to buy the appropriate keg than to use a brewery owned keg and then have to hire a solicitor to defend you should the brewery actually wanted to take you to court. :lol: h34r:

 

[///]

Actually a good point Camo.
I would imagine that while the keg had brewery beer in it then it may be OK to hold it for an extended period of time.
Isn't it a fact that when a person hires a keg for home serving they are really only hiring it from a pub and not the actual brewery.

It would be a lot cheaper to buy the appropriate keg than to use a brewery owned keg and then have to hire a solicitor to defend you should the brewery actually wanted to take you to court. :lol: h34r:

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

 

[Camo6]

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

 

[Grott]

and I could name some commercial beers that would take you years to drink!

 

[Kev R]

I have a new and a 2nd hand balllock. The new one has lap joints welded that leave a unwelded joint inside. I'm carefull to not leave it empty or open if it got infected beer it would be difficult to sanitatise crap traped under the lapjoint.
The second hand Pepsi has proper full penetration but welds.

 

[MastersBrewery]

MB, is there a particular reason you would go D type couplers over A type?

They're available in1/6 bbl and circlip D type can be pulled down without specialist tools and are as easy to re assemble, prices from stout tanks are US$284 for 4 of them leaving a good bit of room for freight. A bulk buy would probably get them cheaper but import duties and GST would then apply.

A type are the best option for a number of technical reasons. I have worked with a German spear supplier for a number of years, working on the approval cycle thru cub and lion Nathan successfully.

Main reason to go d's is probably height. The kegs are 150mm lower and fit in keg fridges better.

Most prob do not go commercial kegs due to cleaning. Bit of McGuyvering can see you get there

No way I could lift a full 50L keg these days
Not doubting anything you've said, I have worked with both in commercial bars. A keg washer would be a must and pulling 1 in 5 spears to inspect. I haven't had to pull down and rebuild an A type but either way both these type couplers are in wide use within the commercial industry, taps and parts are and will be available for decades to come, the same can't be said for cornie type kegs.

 

[dicko]

Covered to death here, it's illegal. If you rent a car and do not take it back, is it yours? Buying 50l is much easier, KK AND Bintani can help.

My Ops manager made a statement against a fella that had his house raided and they found our kegs. More charges laid for the fella

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

Yep... rent it from a pub...legally it is not the pubs equipment to rent...
Rent it from a micro...then it is more than likely a legal agreement with the micro and the consumer, in which case the rental details including the extent of hire as in time need to be clearly stated.

The OP is probably never going to use a keg from a brewery or a micro, so from my point of view, from the condition of some of the second hand kegs that I have seen become available of late, I would probably buy new ones

 

[///]

But you rent a car on a time based arrangement. Is there a specific time limit specified when you buy 50l of kegged beer as to when that keg must be returned? While pubs would turn over kegs very quickly, Joe Blow might take months to finish his keg of Geelong Bitter. Can he be charged for being a slow drinker?

FWIW, I'm certainly not advocating stealing kegs for personal use as I realise they're a costly item for the brewer, but curious as to the terms of the purchase/rental agreement as I've never bought/hired one myself.

Been covered to Death Part II. You buy the beer in the keg. Add on a Euro 85 per keg purchase. If you were the Coogee Bay Hotel which does 500 kegs a week in peak, what would you do with all those kegs? Ahhh ... ummm ...

There is no purchase/rental agreement, drink the beer, send back the keg. Been covered to death Part III ...

 

[Camo6]

Been covered to Death Part II. You buy the beer in the keg. Add on a Euro 85 per keg purchase. If you were the Coogee Bay Hotel which does 500 kegs a week in peak, what would you do with all those kegs? Ahhh ... ummm ...

There is no purchase/rental agreement, drink the beer, send back the keg. Been covered to death Part III ...

Not really sure I understood your response. Why would a high turnover pub want to retain empty kegs?

So, in regards to my question, if you buy 50l of beer (that comes in a keg) and retain a receipt, there's no legal agreement that states how quickly it must be consumed and returned? Cool. Curiosity sated. No need to look up this trilogy you mention.

 

[Tahoose]

Getting back to the original topic.

First keg I bought was second hand, seal kit was free so I chucked on that, soon enough I realised that the lid was stuffed so I bought a new lid. Now around the $100 mark.

Then came in the vic keg bulk but (godsend). So I got 3 x 19's and 3 x 9's. As was said earlier, these kegs come with a 5yr warranty. If you look after them they should last for at least a couple of decades, not one problem here.

I also have bought an A type keg and a couple of D's (scrap yard). And lobbed onto a couple of bargains for couplers. These couplers have threads that are suitable for a ball lock conversion, so they work in with my system. As a home brewer I find the A type kegs easier to use in a home operation. But not as practice as the cornies.

Buy once, buy well. You won't regret it.

 

[pist]

Ive recently gone through this...and my 2c is for the cost of a new keg king corny (new rubberised top and bottom ones) i wouldn't bother with second hand. Cost to buy second hand is going up and up...then you have to buy seals etc to rebuild them it all starts adding up. The new keg king ones i picked up today are just as good as genuine cornies and everything is new ready to go

 

[Bribie G]

I was in my LHBS today for the first time since I'd posted on this thread so I went over the new kegs with a fine toothed comb. I honestly can't tell any difference between them and my second hand ball locks except that they are Noiiice.

If I were starting off now I'd go the new ones, let's face it for an extra thirty bucks or whatever per keg, it's a good deal.

 

[dannymars]

Plus, when you get the old ones they're quite often filthy and filled with old soft-drink, sticky horrible **** that you need to completely scrub out... New ones are shiny as ****, and look awesome compared to ****** 2nd hand ones. new for me from now on...

 

[Crusty]

Been covered to Death Part II. You buy the beer in the keg. Add on a Euro 85 per keg purchase. If you were the Coogee Bay Hotel which does 500 kegs a week in peak, what would you do with all those kegs? Ahhh ... ummm ...

There is no purchase/rental agreement, drink the beer, send back the keg. Been covered to death Part III ...

I think you might be right.
A while back, I remember that they used to have an invoiced inventory system in place & the guy that collected the kegs would fill out how many A or D type kegs were going back. Your next keg order was credited against the returned number of kegs back to the brewery. Gone are those days & the guy picking them up now just loads up whats there for the taking & I'm certain the breweries have no idea of who has what. I think any losses are absorbed by the owners & finding a particular keg against a serial number would be almost impossible. The pubs & places here have no lock up facilities for empty kegs & I'm sure if they were losing money for non returned kegs, they'd be locked away. They remain the property of the brewery but it's certainly not policed around these parts. If there was a hold fee on non returned kegs, there would be a lot less stainless bling furniture at most of our local watering holes. The darn things are everywhere & there's some good looking pub furniture made from empties at a couple of places here.
As for new or second hand, I'd be going new for sure.

 

[MastersBrewery]

And if you left a case of beer on the foot path overnight and it was not there the next morning a complaint to the police would be met with laughter, go figure. I've stated before and still believe the responsibility for securing the property of the brewery lies with the pub, if said pub is not looking after that property....... I believe all due care is not being taken, and the end cost falls on the price at the tap.

 

[Grott]

Just to stir up a bit, the SA famous pick axe beer bottles have embossed at the base "property of the Adelaide Bottling Co P/L". Now when that actually applied how many were used for home brew, tomatoes sauce etc?
Cheers