Kegmenter. Are they good to use?

[Mardoo]

I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one.

So it's just the gauge that's a problem? I just bought two of their spunding valves yesterday. Other threads have indicated that they're OK if you can work out a process to set them correctly.

 

[nosco]

So I take it you run off slowly until you get clear beer coming through?

I havnt worked out the process yet. Not sure if I run off the yeast first or run off the beer first. Maybe beer first through the beer post with a picnic tap or something til I get clear beer. That way it wont drop the volume too much.

 

[nosco]

Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast.

Its looks like Ill have lots of stainless fermenter options very soon :beerbang:

 

[5150]

So it's just the gauge that's a problem? I just bought two of their spunding valves yesterday. Other threads have indicated that they're OK if you can work out a process to set them correctly.

Yeah, I found the gauge was not very accurate. Setting takes a little to get used to. Easiest way I found way to set off another keg or a PET bottle. In saying this I have accidentally set it too high, checked on it about 18 hours later and the pressure was close to 40psi. I opened it up and set it to about 12psi, fermentation still finished in three days.

 

[5150]

Here is a photo of what i use on a standard keg. The coupler is a little bastardised because with the standard handle they don't work on my 20L kegs. I hope it helps.

 

[Mardoo]

Good to know one can set them for higher than 15psi. Thanks for the help.

 

[pcqypcqy]

I have a kegmenter and I also use a regular keg. Both work equally well. Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast. I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one. Let me know if you need pics to clarify what I'm talking about.

I'd politely disagree with the valve being OK. I find that there's a bit of wiggle room between the screw and the body, and wiggling this makes a marked difference in the rate of gas coming out and you can see the gauge start to change if you stand there for a few minutes. I've left it overnight after thinking I've set it (and have watched for a few minutes to check that it's stead), and then see the next morning that it's maxed out onto the pin that stop it moving around again past zero. You then unscrew it by a fraction of a turn, then a few hours later it's down to 10 psi or less.

I think the supplied gauge is OK (though I wouldn't mind a few more psi so I can see where it actually gets to when it maxes out), but I find that screw valve/spring assembly really fiddly.

 

[Lager Bloke]

I have just my second pressure ferment about to transfer to keg-only new process for me too.The way I set the pressure on spunding valve was fill vessel with co2 to purge oxygen + increased pressure to check for any leaks (sprayed starsan on edges,welds,etc).Fermenter fully sealed-no leaks,then just backed off spunding valve to 15psi and left it as was then added wort and yeast and into ferment fridge.
The 2nd one I'm about to transfer I'd forgotten that valve was shut to finish off carbonating brew+cold crashing on first batch.For 2 days hadn't seen gauge register any pressure but when I cracked adjuster on valve found that said needle on valve had actually done a full lap of gauge and was fair way into ferment (transferred wort onto yeast cake in vessel).Rob.

 

[Maheel]

Here is a photo of what i use on a standard keg. The coupler is a little bastardised because with the standard handle they don't work on my 20L kegs. I hope it helps.

i am using the same set up, works great no drama

i had the coupler sitting around from a bucket of taps etc i bought years ago so made it cheaper for me

 

[malt junkie]

If your using standard keg couplers, remember that most of these contain a one way valve that should be removed prior to setting up for pressure fermenting.

 

[JB]

If your using standard keg couplers, remember that most of these contain a one way valve that should be removed prior to setting up for pressure fermenting.

Good point MJ. Heard this mentioned before but need to track down the 'how to'

 

[Droopy Brew]

The coupler idea certainly looks the easiest. Looking on ebay now?
Also interested to see how to remove the 1 way valve.

 

[Droopy Brew]

The coupler idea certainly looks the easiest. Looking on ebay now?
Also interested to see how to remove the 1 way valve.

Look and ye shall find. For those interested in the couplers- this explains all including valve removal.

 

[JB]

Cheers droopy

 

[claypot]

Anyone given any thought to adapting one of these to fit a pressure cleaner / water blaster for cleaning the inside?



http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19MM-3-4-Pipe-to-45MM-1-3-4-Ball-Sanitary-Cleaning-Spray-Ball-SUS-SS316-NEW-/111350285176

 

[malt junkie]

Anyone given any thought to adapting one of these to fit a pressure cleaner / water blaster for cleaning the inside?

s-l200.jpg

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19MM-3-4-Pipe-to-45MM-1-3-4-Ball-Sanitary-Cleaning-Spray-Ball-SUS-SS316-NEW-/111350285176

The setup from norcalbrewing I linked earlier has a rotating sprayer inbuilt. Another reason I like it best. Also why it's the most expensive.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Notes:
As for spunding valves being a little unreliable for pressure control and beer blow through clogging etc.
I have had brews take off really fast early stage and hit pressures up to 40psi. Not good. I have detected a flavour fault that I'd suspect is yeast stress. Its still good beer but for fermentation procedure now as a (no fail by stuck spunding valve scenario). I do a 4mm blow off tube into a flask of water for the first 2 to 3 days of ferment. Its probably 80% done by then and then click on the 80psi spunding valve just to read the pressure rise of the final ~20% of the ferment. Its a feel/guess thing but the brew should finish at ~22psi as usual but without crazy pressure fluctuations throughout the ferment.
Also avoiding beer blow through the spunding valve and clogging because you've made a good body beer etc.

$0.02

 

[claypot]

I've just discovered this pressure fermenting gig, sounds awesome for double batch's.

Instead of the KK spunding valve, could you not just use a pressure regulator that is normally used for compressed air?
The way I see it is the KK one is designed to relieve pressure not regulate it. A regulator would provide a more constant pressure.
I would think it would provide a finer, more reliable set point.

 

[Maheel]

nope a compressor valve stops at a certain pressure as it builds "up" and then closes "shut"

spunding works in reverse lets it out until you get down to X pressure then shuts

 

[Maheel]

on drunken reflection i think you mean the "air line regulator" not the on / of switch reg....

dont air line regs let out air anything under what you set but not above.? ( mine do this)

so then you will never build any pressure anyway and it will just leak pressure

that said what happens if you put air line regs on in reverse ? (i assume you make a bomb)

 

[claypot]

Yeah, I stuffed up. This won't work....
Pressure in kegmenter will continue to rise, the only pressure that will be regulated will be the gas out...
thought it seemed to simple. I better have another beer.

 

[peteru]

I do a 4mm blow off tube into a flask of water for the first 2 to 3 days of ferment. Its probably 80% done by then and then click on the 80psi spunding valve just to read the pressure rise of the final ~20% of the ferment. Its a feel/guess thing but the brew should finish at ~22psi as usual but without crazy pressure fluctuations throughout the ferment.

I don't have a kegmenter (yet), so am far from an expert on this matter, but...

Isn't that kind of defeating some of the benefits of brewing in a kegmenter? I thought the idea was that the increased pressure will suppress some ester formation that happens fairly early in the fermentation process. Thus, if you perform most of your fermentation at ambient pressure and only capture the CO2 at the end, you are effectively only using the kegmenter to carbonate the beer. Thus you are missing out on some of the benefits - higher temps, faster brews, less off flavours.

Or have I got it completely wrong?

 

[fw00r]

I don't have a kegmenter (yet), so am far from an expert on this matter, but...

Isn't that kind of defeating some of the benefits of brewing in a kegmenter? I thought the idea was that the increased pressure will suppress some ester formation that happens fairly early in the fermentation process. Thus, if you perform most of your fermentation at ambient pressure and only capture the CO2 at the end, you are effectively only using the kegmenter to carbonate the beer. Thus you are missing out on some of the benefits - higher temps, faster brews, less off flavours.

Or have I got it completely wrong?

I think you're on the right track peteru, but in the case of not being able to trust the spunding valve that seems to be a way to get some of the benefits.
Ideally the valve would work as required... but 40psi seems to suggest it wasn't for Danscraftbeer.

 

[malt junkie]

I think either plenty of head space or fermcap would help solve the issue of the spunding getting gunked up. For me and a fair few home brewers, I try to exclude as many chemical agents as I can.
In this case the yanks again have the advantage, their 58L Sanke kegs have that little bit of extra head space to allow for double batches. A 40L batch in a 50L keg gives you 20% when you likely need 30%+.

Yankee kegs do pop up, but rarely, and the cost of importing is ridiculous, best bet find a craft bar with a Yankee beer on tap and see if you can't buy the empty keg (they ain't going to ship it back too costly)

cheers

 

[pcqypcqy]

When I've expected a blow out (such as 40 litres of porter in a 50 litre keg), as suggested earlier in this thread (I think) I've run a line from the kegmenter gas out to a spare, sanitised corny, then put the spunding valve on the corny.. This is essentially a blow off tube, but with the ability to hold the pressure. This worked well for the blow off, still doesn't fix the spunding valve being fiddly.

I'm probably going to try what Danscraftbeer suggested and not try to hold the pressure for the first few days. I get way too many pressure spikes and I can't imagine this is good for the beer. I think the general technique is to try and ferment at a few psi, and then close the valve towards the end to carbonate as much as possible, so maybe I'll put the valve on with no tension on the spring, and then slowly screw it in over time and see how that goes.

Craftbrewer sells a spunding valve that looks to be better quality, not sure if it works better or not.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Good points. As for pressure supressed Esters at higher temps. I just don't go higher temps. I've always brewed at the lower yeast temps.
pcqy's suggestion of a spare keg as the way to keep pressure control with the spunding valve is an excellent idea. I could use one of my mini kegs I'm getting for that it will fit in the ferment fridge. It also doubles as a collecting chamber for the high Krausen blow off yeast as an option.
I like that idea a lot! B)

 

[malt junkie]

Good points. As for pressure supressed Esters at higher temps. I just don't go higher temps. I've always brewed at the lower yeast temps.
pcqy's suggestion of a spare keg as the way to keep pressure control with the spunding valve is an excellent idea. I could use one of my mini kegs I'm getting for that it will fit in the ferment fridge. It also doubles as a collecting chamber for the high Krausen blow off yeast as an option.
I like that idea a lot! B)

To add to this, best practice would have you flush the line between fermenter and keg daily, to prevent any build up drying out.

 

[Mardoo]

Well, my first fully pressurised ferment is finally on. I'm totally stoked! From 0 to 11 psi in 11 hours, using a vitality starter. The pressure gauge actually showed 0 at 6:00 this morning and 11 psi at noon.

But, on the gauge and relief valve, the valve was actually set at 6 psi, so out the gate there's either more learning (always), or issues to resolve. I set it on the keg I was transferring into, pressuring it to 6 psi, and then setting the valve off the keg. Then I purged the keg. I checked the valve setting on the second pressure/purge cycle.

Nevertheless I'm totally wrapped to finally be here. I've done a few pressurised dry hoppings, but this is where I've been aiming for awhile.

 

[Coldspace]

I haven't looked back since moving into pressurised ferment .

The natural carbonation just makes my beers taste that little bit nicer etc

 

[Mardoo]

Do you dry hop? If so, how do you handle the dry hopping then carbonation?