Kegging For Beginners

[Georgedgerton]

Being responsible for starting the original post I would say the response has been unexpected. Keep in mind my original post was to:

Offer my own experience as a beginner.

Give other beginners a stable starting point from which they can progress.

In no way was I telling other folk in an arrogant manner how to go about it.

Further more some folk may be impressed with Pyro's knowledge, however no matter how good this may be he has no idea of how many beginners (including myself) approach their first kegging attempts. Personally I don't care if he thinks I'm thick as two short planks, pages of info don't compensate for a stable starting point.

So there we have it, I know some may relate to what I was trying to get across, others won't.

By the way, no hard feelings towards Pyro, were just approaching an old problem from different perspectives.

George

 

[Spartan 117]

I would personally suggest you use that worksheet to carb your keg the slow way for the first time and then once you know your system back to front take some short cuts. Particularly if you have multiple kegs and you have a slow-carbed keg as a control handy for when you force-carb, using for example the Ross method, the second keg.

I'll see how i go, i haven't gotten myself a tap and the LHBS wont have them in for a while so the slow way may be the go and then balance when i have the tap, have you used the ross method is so how did you find it, the blokes at the LHBS say its the way to go ?

Cheers

Aaron

 

[pyrobrewer]

I read the short post that I quoted. I will NOT read your long posts above. Your short posts aren't making much sense and I don't expect your long ones to be any better.

For example this little gem above, what the hell are you on about? Laws of physics? What law? Why are you bringing it up? It is well known that if you set the right pressure for the right beer style at your chosen beer temperature, you will carb your beer to the correct level over a 1-2 week period. Once the beer is carbed to this correct level, it will stop. It will not overcarb, even if you let it sit for another 1-2 weeks.

On the other hand with force carbing, it is VERY easy to over or under carb a beer. I mean it doesn't even take into consideration the temperature you're serving your beer at or the style of the beer. It's just a rough as guts way to get some level of carbonation going quickly. It's great but I would never recommend it to people new to kegging and I really wish no one recommended it to me when I was new to kegging.

Just read the post! You are arguing my point and dont know it- thanks but not needed. The short posts rely on your understanding the thread which you seem proud to not read?!

What do you think force carbing is? It doesnt matter what the pressure is. Just that is not bottle conditioned - do you have another definition for force carbonation that excludes the facts we are both promoting? If so what do you call it?

Just new here please other posters am I feeding a troll? No foul intended Mark ******* dont get cranky just read the post.

 

[MarkBastard]

I'll see how i go, i haven't gotten myself a tap and the LHBS wont have them in for a while so the slow way may be the go and then balance when i have the tap, have you used the ross method is so how did you find it, the blokes at the LHBS say its the way to go ?

Cheers

Aaron

I use the Ross method all the time now and it's great. I also used it for my very first keg (because of near unanimous recommendation) and I really wish I didn't.

If you don't have a tap yet I'd recommend you get one of those bronco / picnic taps. They're cheap and they'll be handy anyway for you in the future as they're good taps to learn about stuff like this with. The whole tap sits inside your fridge / chest freezer and so the whole tap should stay at the same temperature as your keg. Because of this you will not likely have any heat related foaming issues, any foaming issues will most likely be that the keg itself has a carbonation issue, or they your serving pressure is too high for the line length / internal diameter.

The way I use the Ross method now is to try and get the keg about 80% carbed, and then I set back to normal pressure and let sit for a few days. 80% is enough to get a quick 'sample' of your beer but much less chance of overcarbing. The beer then hits 100% carbed in the next few days. You can take a sample each day if you want to see how a beer progresses as it reaches carbonation and also benefits for maturation.

 

[MarkBastard]

Just read the post! You are arguing my point and dont know it- thanks but not needed. The short posts rely on your understanding the thread which you seem proud to not read?!

What do you think force carbing is? It doesnt matter what the pressure is. Just that is not bottle conditioned - do you have another definition for force carbonation that excludes the facts we are both promoting? If so what do you call it?

Just new here please other posters am I feeding a troll? No foul intended Mark ******* dont get cranky just read the post.

You read the OP, you're the confused one mate.

The OP is talking about force carbing ala the Ross method, which correlates to your second example. It takes 50 seconds and is what I have not been recommending to a new kegger.

The OP is talking about the 'slow road' which correlates to your first example.

 

[Spartan 117]

I use the Ross method all the time now and it's great. I also used it for my very first keg (because of near unanimous recommendation) and I really wish I didn't.

If you don't have a tap yet I'd recommend you get one of those bronco / picnic taps. They're cheap and they'll be handy anyway for you in the future as they're good taps to learn about stuff like this with. The whole tap sits inside your fridge / chest freezer and so the whole tap should stay at the same temperature as your keg. Because of this you will not likely have any heat related foaming issues, any foaming issues will most likely be that the keg itself has a carbonation issue, or they your serving pressure is too high for the line length / internal diameter.

The way I use the Ross method now is to try and get the keg about 80% carbed, and then I set back to normal pressure and let sit for a few days. 80% is enough to get a quick 'sample' of your beer but much less chance of overcarbing. The beer then hits 100% carbed in the next few days. You can take a sample each day if you want to see how a beer progresses as it reaches carbonation and also benefits for maturation.

Yeah i plan on getting the picnic tap, considering the ammount of cash I've spent on the whole kegging setup I cant quite justify the extra cash on a "good" tap when the bronco one will do just fine

Cheers for the advice Mark

Aaron

 

[Wonderwoman]

The way I use the Ross method now is to try and get the keg about 80% carbed, and then I set back to normal pressure and let sit for a few days. 80% is enough to get a quick 'sample' of your beer but much less chance of overcarbing. The beer then hits 100% carbed in the next few days. You can take a sample each day if you want to see how a beer progresses as it reaches carbonation and also benefits for maturation.

how exactly do you get the keg 80% carbed?

I ask because I'm a kegging beginner. I've just been trying to set up my first kegged beer today (but had some issues) and I was planning on using the 'ross method.' after reading this thread, I think it makes sense to go with the slow carbonation method when starting out, but I really wanted to be able to serve beer on tap at a party next saturday

 

[pyrobrewer]

Being responsible for starting the original post I would say the response has been unexpected. Keep in mind my original post was to:

Offer my own experience as a beginner.

Give other beginners a stable starting point from which they can progress.

In no way was I telling other folk in an arrogant manner how to go about it.

Further more some folk may be impressed with Pyro's knowledge, however no matter how good this may be he has no idea of how many beginners (including myself) approach their first kegging attempts. Personally I don't care if he thinks I'm thick as two short planks, pages of info don't compensate for a stable starting point.

So there we have it, I know some may relate to what I was trying to get across, others won't.

By the way, no hard feelings towards Pyro, were just approaching an old problem from different perspectives.

George

Actualy I was impressed with your first post which is why i tried to help. not sure how it went wrong! I dont think you are thick. I didnt start the stupid thing. The stable starting point you refer to is in my reply to you first post - knowledge is power. Isnt that the point of this forum share and learn
Force carb and low carb are degrees of the same thing. I stand by that post, you may percieve this as arrogant... Im not offended. The post was not private information, anyone can take or leave it or more importantly I welcome all to peer review it and make it better perhaps turn it into a less "arrogant Post "

 

[porky4776]

I tried the ross method and it didnt work(mostly my fault I think), however I came across another method that sat better with me, and seemed a fair compromise. Involved setting things to serving pressure, and then sitting infront of a good show, and gently rocking the keg fro 1/2 hr, then leaving at serving pressure in the fridge overnight. Worked a charm for my second keg, and as you are only at serving pressure, the chance of overcarbing is next to none. Not quite as fast, but a lot less risk of overcarbonation.

 

[Bribie G]

I have a 3 keg kegerator setup and don't use a 'rocking' method, I just leave them on about 150 kPa for only three or four days, which gasses them up nicely. I've never had to wait the week or 10 days as often touted. Then (because they are all on the same pressure) I drop the pressure and burp the kegs that are being currently served and this brings them down to a good pouring rate without too much foaming.

 

[MarkBastard]

how exactly do you get the keg 80% carbed?

I ask because I'm a kegging beginner. I've just been trying to set up my first kegged beer today (but had some issues) and I was planning on using the 'ross method.' after reading this thread, I think it makes sense to go with the slow carbonation method when starting out, but I really wanted to be able to serve beer on tap at a party next saturday

Just do the first part for less time. When you turn the gass off and keep rocking the pressure should end up dropping more than it says in the guide. No hard and fast rule to hit 80% unfortunately. I'd rather hit 50% then 105% though.

 

[MarkBastard]

I tried the ross method and it didnt work(mostly my fault I think), however I came across another method that sat better with me, and seemed a fair compromise. Involved setting things to serving pressure, and then sitting infront of a good show, and gently rocking the keg fro 1/2 hr, then leaving at serving pressure in the fridge overnight. Worked a charm for my second keg, and as you are only at serving pressure, the chance of overcarbing is next to none. Not quite as fast, but a lot less risk of overcarbonation.

Yeah I've tried that one too. Didn't have the patience for it personally and I was worried about the beer warming up in the process.

Bribie, that's another method as well. You can deliberately put it at higher pressure and just leave it. It will carb faster than sitting it at serving pressure. There is still a risk of overcarbing doing it this way. That said it is much lower risk and if you were going to carb at serving pressure there's nothing wrong with cranking up the pressure during the first two days to cut down the time.

All still things I would not recommend to a new kegger.

 

[bill_gill85]

Can someone please explain the difference between an "overcarbed" beer and a highly carbonated beer?

Surely the same beer on two different systems, one could be considered overcarbed & one be highly carbonated?

Isn't bleeding off excess pressure just accomodating the line length between disconnect & tap, ie to keep CO2 in solution, it needs to be dispensed at a specific pressure & temperature & then the line length (or compensator) provides resistance to create an acceptable pour?

I have read the AHB article on balancing a draught system & am led to believe that this is the case, so perhaps a compensator is a newbies best friend.

 

[NickB]

Simplest way to 'fast carb' a beer without the chance of over-carbing, is to set the reg to serving pressure, and then invert and rock the keg for 30-60 mins. You'll get pretty close to serving pressure this way without any chance of over-carbing...

Cheers

 

[Georgedgerton]

PYRO

OK time to call a truce on this one - Two people, same objective, going in different directions.

Would still like to hear from others on the subject

 

[MarkBastard]

Can someone please explain the difference between an "overcarbed" beer and a highly carbonated beer?

Surely the same beer on two different systems, one could be considered overcarbed & one be highly carbonated?

Isn't bleeding off excess pressure just accomodating the line length between disconnect & tap, ie to keep CO2 in solution, it needs to be dispensed at a specific pressure & temperature & then the line length (or compensator) provides resistance to create an acceptable pour?

I have read the AHB article on balancing a draught system & am led to believe that this is the case, so perhaps a compensator is a newbies best friend.

It doesn't matter what system you're on, overcarbed beers are beers where there is too much co2 dissolved into the beer for the beer style or your preference. This is a different thing to for example serving pressure being too high.

You want to first of all get the pressure in the keg right such that the co2 will dissolve into the beer at the desired level, and then hit equilibrium. Then you want to have the right line length / diameter so that you can keep that same pressure and pour a beer through your system correctly.

My opinion is that it is absolutely paramount you get the first step right as a new kegger. You need to be confident your beer is carbonated correctly before you start worrying about actually pouring it. Some of the symptoms of over-carbing / under carbing / incorrect line lengths / leaks in your system / hot lines / hot taps etc can be similar and hard to detect.

-----

NickB, that'd be a good workout too :lol:

I wonder if you can get some kind of 'shaking machine'. Maybe chuck your keg on top of the old washing machine.

 

[glaab]

I've tried both methods and IMHO the beer is better off left for about 14 days at serving pressure.
Purely from a taste/ drinkability point of view. To me beer force carbed in an hour or so tastes green like beer bottled for 1 week. I've also done Brewcraft's recommended method of semi-forced carbing by applying about 30psi for a couple of days then reducing to serving pressure.
I would do that if I wanted to serve in 7 days [2-3days at 30 then 4-5 at 10psi].
14 days at 10-12psi produces the best result in my experience, probably partly due to the beer getting some age. I gotta agree with the OP. Cheers

 

[riverside]

I've tried both methods and IMHO the beer is better off left for about 14 days at serving pressure.
Purely from a taste/ drinkability point of view. To me beer force carbed in an hour or so tastes green like beer bottled for 1 week. I've also done Brewcraft's recommended method of semi-forced carbing by applying about 30psi for a couple of days then reducing to serving pressure.
I would do that if I wanted to serve in 7 days [2-3days at 30 then 4-5 at 10psi].
14 days at 10-12psi produces the best result in my experience, probably partly due to the beer getting some age. I gotta agree with the OP. Cheers

I 100% agree, when i have forced carbed in the past the beer tends to taste a little green (even if it has matured for a few weeks before)
Just my op !

 

[dago001]

Only been kegging for about 2 months. I went with the forced carb method, as I was too impatient to wait 2 weeks to try my beer from my first keg. I have continued to do this and have done 6 kegs now. I can see advantages in doing it both ways, but for me the biggest factor is that I only have 2 kegs. If you are only drinking a keg every 3 to 4 weeks, the the serving pressure carb method is ok. However, as a family with 5 over 18's a keg lasts just over a week. So until I get some more kegs, force carbing is the only way I can keep up with beer consumption. I agree that the beer tastes a little new ( don't like the term green as we always considered beer that is out of date to be green ) but at this stage that is what I have to accept. My beers are all over 6 weeks old normally before they get kegged. It is still a better beer than what I was buying.
I started with 3 metres of beer line and a picnic tap and never had any troubles with pouring a decent beer.
If a beer has been a bit under carbed I just leave it on the gas at serving pressure or a little above over night and check the next day.
I don't see that either method is better than the other, and getting the correct amount of carb into a beer for someone new to kegging seems to be daunting. We just wanted to pull beers and have fun and enjoy the experience. Thats what its all about !!!

p.s. 5 adults is Me, wife, 2 daughters and 1 boyfriend - not a Uni house.

 

[pyrobrewer]

Force Conditioning (Carbonation) ​

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I have a chart I use if this will help anyone? Let me know, its not on this PC, I can post it tomorrow. It has PSI and KPA, Farenheight and Celcius.​

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View attachment Carbonation_Chart__3_.pdf

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