Keg System Setup Help & Idea's Please!

[SJW]

As you all know I have been AG for a fair while now, approx 60 AG's, and am making the move into kegging. :huh:
Now I have got on the way 2 Corny's (with ball lock fittings, I hope) I also have a size "D" or the bigger type Medical CO2 bottle that I can get filled at BOC for approx $36.
So all is well, but the only problem is........I have no idea what the hell I am doing or going to do.
First things first. I do have a very large solid timber bar at home but at this stage I dont want to go drilling holes in it for a font or go moving my fermentation fridge under the bar to hold the kegs. So I want to keep it all in the fridge. i.e., using a Pluto gun <_< or I would rather just get one of those taps that click straight onto the top of the keg or disconnect. Does this sound do able?
I have read heaps of threads on the site in relation to kegging and understand the carbonation process either force carbing by ramping up the co2 and shaking, then venting then setting the reg at serve pressure. Or just setting at serve pressure and leaving for a week or 2. What has me stuffed is balancing the system. From what I read it appears that the serve pressure is dependant on the length of line going from the keg to the tap? I.e. the longer and smaller the line the high serve pressure required therefore a high carbonation in the beer can be maintained?
In my case if I wanted to use the tap on the keg thing, wouldnt I need to pull the serve pressure way back and therefore end up with flat beer? Or should I buy one of those fancy taps with the reg knob on the side to slow the serve rate down? Or would this just result in heaps of foam?
If this is all too hard maybe I should just get a bulkhead type tap and put it thru my door with a metre or 2 of beer line behind it to slow down the serve speed. (Sorry about all the high tech talk)
So, I will probably buy all the bits from Mark, so what else would I need?
A regulator. Is the Micromatic the best?
And what about those check valves so beer does not end up in the reg?
And what type of tap should I get?
Any help would be great.
I still think its going to be a pain in the ass, but if it works out I have been told I will never look back <_<

Steve

 

[Fents]

spose you could do it the "in fridge" way...

But what are your reasons for not wanting to drill a font on the bar? Dont wanna wreck the bar?

I'd get another fridge an do the bar thing, seriously it will look great and there is nothing like standing behind a bar pouring beers for mates.

 

[SJW]

But what are your reasons for not wanting to drill a font on the bar? Dont wanna wreck the bar?

I'd get another fridge an do the bar thing, seriously it will look great and there is nothing like standing behind a bar pouring beers for mates.

I know, that what everyone says. I guess I have been bottling for so long its going to take some time to convert. I just dont think I drink enough to justify have it all set up in the bar with flooded fonts and everything when I only have 1 king brown per night. It just seem like a lot of overkill just to have a beer or 2 every night. But saying that if I can get my head around a basic setup and get it working who knows.

Steve

 

[fraser_john]

Though I love the look of the flooded fonts etc, I/we do not drink enough to warrant more than four taps on at once. I have three standard taps and single stout faucet through my fridge door, I have a bar outside, but we only use it in summer, so the beer stays inside in a converted fridge setup just for the beer.

Balancing the system is not hard if you use the spreadsheet you can find on this site (I am sure you have read the wiki as you know all the terminology), fitting out the fridge is pretty easy as well!

Having the taps in the fridge door is a lot easier than opening/closing the door all the time, plus a lot more energy efficient. I used to use the picnic taps when I first started kegging, but it was a nuisance, open/pour/close....open/pour/close....fridge running constantly.

If you only have two kegs comming, get a tap and put it through the door, have two gas lines in the fridge so your next brew is carbonating whilst you drink the current one, so its ready to go.

You really will not look back!

 

[coolum brewer]

I know, that what everyone says. I guess I have been bottling for so long its going to take some time to convert. I just dont think I drink enough to justify have it all set up in the bar with flooded fonts and everything when I only have 1 king brown per night. It just seem like a lot of overkill just to have a beer or 2 every night. But saying that if I can get my head around a basic setup and get it working who knows.

Steve

Drink more! :chug:

 

[tangent]

i 2nd drink more
also, 1 beer on tap is never enough. variety is the spice of life.

 

[SJW]

If you only have two kegs comming, get a tap and put it through the door, have two gas lines in the fridge so your next brew is carbonating whilst you drink the current one, so its ready to go.

You really will not look back!

That sounds like good advice.
So is that theory true about the more beer line or thinner beer line the higher the carbonation can be without foaming beer going everywhere?

 

[bugwan]

Hi Steve, my keg setup is pretty basic (in the fridge, rather than through the fridge door). It's basic because it needed to be cheap and because I don't actually own the dispensing fridge...bugger!

I started off with a pluto (sits in the fridge), with two metres of beer line between keg and gun. Works a treat, but as soon as you want to taste something other than the 19 litres in keg1, you need to disconnect the gun, reconnect and drain what's in the line before pouring a different beer. This worked ok for a month or two while I saved for a Micromatic TTF (through the fridge) tap. Best move I've made - it's a very small system compared to many on these forums, but if you're just starting kegging it's a great, scalable way to get into it. Now all I need to do is add more taps as I need them.

The tap itself is mounted on a piece of timber from an old fence (!) that I cut to fit the fridge width exactly. It just jams in there with a shove. I can transfer the setup anywhere and convert a fridge one day to make the tap thing permanent.

If you want to keg and aren't sure on the configuration, I'd recommend either getting a pluto and sitting it in the fridge with a couple of metres of line, or considering a setup like mine, that doesn't require hacking a fridge (especially helpful if you're thinking of switching to a font in the future and don't want holes in your fridge door).

I'm sure some would say it looks ridiculous, but I'm very pleased with how it works. Wandering into your laundry and waltzing out a few seconds later with a frothy pint in your hand is enough to put a smile on even the most solemn dial.

I still bottle a percentage of my brews, but the first time that you drain that fermenter straight into a keg is one of the sweetest moments in a brewer's life Good luck mate.

 

[razz]

That sounds like good advice.
So is that theory true about the more beer line or thinner beer line the higher the carbonation can be without foaming beer going everywhere?

For the same keg pressure more line is needed for larger diameter beer line.

 

[SJW]

I have also heard stories that some blokes throw 180g of Dex into the keg and leave warm for a couple of weeks to carb up then vent and hook up to co2 to serve to save gas. The fella that told me about this said it was the only way he could get the beer to flow. Is this a normal thing to do or even worth while?

 

[Fents]

you could prime them? but why do that when you can just gas it? just set it a pouring pressure and leave it for 5 day and it should be good to go.

even 1 800ml tallie is enough to warrant drilling that bar mate. if you are worried that you'll drink more cause its "on tap" then i cant help with that but i can say the novelty wares off after a while.

I've only got one tap on my bar and only just now looking for a double font after 2+ years, one is fine tho i rarley have more than one beer kegged anyway.

Up to you in the end but i'd go that bar staright away.

 

[Peter Wadey]

Hi SJW,
I have a simple setup, just 1 pluto gun in a chest freezer with several kegs. When I want something different I just swap to another keg. Doesn't worry me about clearing the beer line each time. It's only an oz or so, and it's not wasted . Line (& hence beer) & gun stays cold in the freezer.

If I expand, it will be to get some plastic picnic taps & extra disconnects.

Why not start out simple & worry about getting fancy later on when you get the hang of things?

Rgds,
Peter

 

[Eugene]

I have also heard stories that some blokes throw 180g of Dex into the keg and leave warm for a couple of weeks to carb up then vent and hook up to co2 to serve to save gas. The fella that told me about this said it was the only way he could get the beer to flow. Is this a normal thing to do or even worth while?

Hi Steve,
Chris here, good to see you again, I have know idea how you could have done 60+ AG and still Bottle, I would have given up brewing by now if it were not for kegs, took great pleasure in giving away my 300+ bottles to "mates", (who now keg).

I use the Dextrose in the keg for two reasons,
1:, it works, every time, without fail, carbed beer, just get cold and pour, I leave it two weeks at the same temp it was brewed at so the remaining yeast will work.
2: I now have enough beer, (several kegs full) that I dont need to rush the forced carb method to get beer I can drink, I have used it, and it works, but is alot of messing around when it isnt required in a hurry.

As for leaving at serving pressure, my last keg was done this way for an experiment, as I have heaps of beer ready to go and can fit a 50lt and three 20lt keg in my fridge at a time.

results were good, but it took longer than I thought, keg went in at 18deg c, fridge runs at 1.5 deg c, it took three days to be down to temp, gas was conected to the liquid out line so the gas had to bubble through the beer as it gassed.

I left it a week in total, beer was drinkable, but not "fully" carbed to a level that I like, I left it one more week, beer was good, and more than drinkable, it has now been a month and a half, beer is still great, not over carbed, pours perfect.

my setup is as follows.

Fridge at 1.5deg c, (triple checked with three differnt themomoters one a calibrated digital unit)

Gas at 100kpa, I NEVER EVER TOUCH THE REG. leave the bloody thing alone.

taps are Micromatic through door from Mark home brew.

all beer line is 5mm ID from Marks LENGTH is 4.5 meters, coiled up into a 150mm dia coil held up neat under the top shelf with cable ties.

I use Ball Lock conections on all, including the "CUB" style keg.

Thats it.

I know I could reduce my line lenght with a Celi with flow control, and in the future I may, but so far, I very happy with how it goes.

EVERY BEER, EVERY TIME POURS STRAIGHT UP, ONE POUR AND GIVES 12-15MM OF HEAD ON A COLD GLASS.

It is however temp sensitive, if I put big keg in hot, it will raise the temp in the fridge for a few days, you have to do two pours and go steady until the fridge is full down to temp, so I am getting a econd chilling?conditioing?carbonating fridge to get rid of this small problem, then I can have four beers on tap, and four beers getting cold and gassed.

I dont drink much Either, cough cough. :lol:

 

[SJW]

Thanks Chris, It was after speaking with u at Marks that got me all pumped about keg's. I guess I just need to get everything together and give it a crack. There just seems to be so much confusion about what works for some and what works for others that it makes bottling look fail safe. But I am getting sick of bottling so I will go the double gas line into the 2 kegs in small fridge. with one tap thru the fridge door.
Will just have to co-ordinate temp controlled fermentation around empty keg time.
See ya soon mate.

 

[Zizzle]

How do you go with sediment on the primed kegs? How many beers before it clears?

 

[Steve Lacey]

FWIW I 100% agree with Peter Wadey. Go minimilast as possible at first then upgrade as you get used to it and decide what you "need" next (as opposed to others telling you what you "need"). But the single through the door option does sound like a good decision for your circumstances, especially if you can even remotely conceive the possibility that you will entertain guests with your keg setup once said setup is in place.

How do you go with sediment on the primed kegs? How many beers before it clears?

I do this a bit and find it depends on the yeast and the beer and how long is a piece of string. One thing that helps is to start off with the pressure a little high and then back it off. Once it has backed off, there is not as much "suck power" for want of a more technical description, to pull the yeast away from the settled yeast cake. To detach more, you have to exceed the previous highest pressure, if that makes sense. For all you soil scientists out there, it works on the same principle as soil erosion :blink:

 

[bugwan]

I recommend anyone priming kegs should bend the dip tube slightly towards the side of the keg. That way, you can leave a couple of centimetres of sludge and pour off clear beers almost straight away. For my ales that I like to look pretty, I'll filter then force carb. Watching the world through a crystal clear beer is a hobby of mine