Joe White Crystal Malt - Any Ideas On To Use It Better?

[HoppingMad]

This question is going to make me sound like a bit of a dill, but what the hell, everytime I post here I feel like a dill sometimes.

I have 23kg of Joe White Crystal. A big ******* of a bag that I bought in the last grain bulk buy. Trouble is everything I brew with it - the beer turns out really rough.

Like the grain just dominates, and topples over the balance of flavours on everything else.

Mainly doing pale ales and using between 400-800g to add colour/roast flavour.

Has anyone else had a similar issue with this stuff? Or am I simply using too much of this as it's such a strong flavour imparting grain?

Never had any issues with Joe White Caramalt, Caramunichs from Weyerman or other types of Crystal - just this particular grain. I notice it's got a bit of flecked dark/almost black malt looking particles in it - is this type of grain best suited to making a darker type of beer perhaps and not best suited to a pale ale style?

Any thoughts on a recipe where I can use a bit of it to get my supply down would be great too as I'm starting to really dislike the stuff! :angry:

Hopper

 

[alowen474]

What size batch are you doing?
If its a 23L batch thats a fair whack of crystal, I'd aim for around 200 - 300g for that amount.

Maybe you have a few brewers nearby that would buy a few kgs. The grain will keep for a couple of years if you store it right.

 

[kabooby]

I have used it up to 8% in a pale ale with good results. Sounds like you may be over doing it.

Kabooby

 

[Fourstar]

When i use JW Crystal i dont really get alot from it that sings. Just some slight toffee sweetness and not much else. If anything it knocks out and mutes most other malt flavours. I think its distinct flavour can be picked perfectly in JSGA. Totally mutes the malt profile, makes it slightly sweet stands up as boring medium crystal and lets the hops sing. Yes, medium crystals are boring but taste great chewed up on their own!

Whenever i use this malt i find its best used when blended with another crystal, wether it be darker or lighter. My favourite way to use it is 5% crystal with 3% of caramalt. Slap this with 5-8% of munich and the rest as base, a perfect backbone to an APA. :icon_drool2:

For me, to get the best crystal profile you need some blending with another crystal. Helps with the complexity and stops it from being one dimensional like you have noted. The only time i use a single crystal is in very small portions. e.g. 3%~

As for the flecked dark grains in the sack, i wouldnt worry, its just dome darkened/scorched grain. Not enough to make it overly roasty or acrid like in flavour. If you need to get some off your hands i'd happily take 5kg from you.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pennywise]

I use it in almost all my pale ales, but a max of 500g (and thats only when I'm using punch in the face hops). 800g for a sinlge 23L batch would be a bit much for me. Big +1 on mixing it with Caramalt :icon_drool2:

 

[Screwtop]

Rarely go above 5% total for Cara/Crystal malts here, I like dry beers.

Screwy

 

[manticle]

As most people have suggested try knocking back your amounts. If you want colour and roastiness go for another spec grain. Crystal is good for body and sweetness and obviously will add some colour but use it with a lighter hand than you are.

The use of 500g vs 100 g in a recipe of mine (version 1 vs version 2) is the difference between a golden ale and a brown ale so if you're making pales then I reckon 400 is overdose.

 

[saccarin63]

this malt we use in our kooinda pale ale hopping and we use it sparingly nothing above 5%. just go easy drop it back and iam sure this will cut that rough edge those ales have

 

[Kai]

I have 23kg of Joe White Crystal. A big ******* of a bag that I bought in the last grain bulk buy. Trouble is everything I brew with it - the beer turns out really rough.

Like the grain just dominates, and topples over the balance of flavours on everything else.

Mainly doing pale ales and using between 400-800g to add colour/roast flavour.

Has anyone else had a similar issue with this stuff? Or am I simply using too much of this as it's such a strong flavour imparting grain?

Yes, you're using too much. A good adage with any crystal malt is "less is more", and I think this particularly applies to JW medium (and dark) crystal. Personally I'd be sticking to around 2-5% of your grist for JW medium.

[edit] And I know it's not helpful, but you have a shitload of crystal goin' on in your malt stores there...

 

[seemax]

If you don't intend using it up, I'd also be happy to buy a few kg's from you.

Crystal, with its sweet/toffee flavours will easily dominate over base malt (ale/pils).

Lower it down to 3-4% and use some cara-X spec grains... or use a touch of choc malt to adjust colour.

 

[Bizier]

A suggestion is to experiment with some home roasting of a portion to give you more available variety. Different temps and durations will give you different malts.

I am unsure if you want to re-wet the grains or not, and at what temp, and I think you will have to age it a couple of weeks to mellow it out before you brew. The answers to all this and more is available to you via the net.

 

[HoppingMad]

Sorry for the late reply on this thread but you guys all gave me a lot to think about - and it has all been helpful

Beerfloral - What size batch are you doing?

19L mostly. Hence you can see my problem! I have been using waayy too much!

Kabooby - I have used it up to 8% in a pale ale with good results. Sounds like you may be over doing it.

Went back to my bookcase and picked up 'Designing Great Beers' by Ray Daniels and sure enough, 8% seems to be the magic number give or take for crystal in a style like a pale ale. Kabooby you are on the money. I will be aiming around this to see how my brews improve from here in.

Fourstar - Whenever i use this malt i find its best used when blended with another crystal, wether it be darker or lighter. My favourite way to use it is 5% crystal with 3% of caramalt. Slap this with 5-8% of munich and the rest as base, a perfect backbone to an APA.

This sounds like a good idea. Previously I have been at times using JW Crystal instead of Caramunich of Caramalt in a recipe. This has totally thrown the balance of my beers out as the JW seems to have such a big flavour. If constructing a recipe from scratch I'll try a blend to see how it works.

Homebrewer79 - I use it in almost all my pale ales, but a max of 500g (and thats only when I'm using punch in the face hops).

Yeah, I can see now from my mistakes that this grain has some grunt, so if using it at higher amounts it needs to be matched by big hops. Fair call.

Mickeyeyes - this malt we use in our kooinda pale ale hopping and we use it sparingly nothing above 5%.

Love the Kooi, this is good to know that the JW Crystal can impart more subtler flavours when used sparingly - was ready to write this grain off and never return - will continue to give it a go.

Kai - Personally I'd be sticking to around 2-5% of your grist for JW medium.

Interesting that you suggest an even lower amount. I guess it depends on the brew and what you're trying to nail. But can see now that subtler and less is better.

Seemax - If you don't intend using it up, I'd also be happy to buy a few kg's from you.

Haha, reckon I'll keep using it a bit longer, but if I struggle to use it up in a few months I might organise a grain swap for some base grain as I use a fair bit of Pils, Trad Ale and Wheat Malt. But thanks for the offer!

A suggestion is to experiment with some home roasting of a portion to give you more available variety. Different temps and durations will give you different malts.

This is a very interesting idea. Have been reading about roasting malt in a book called 'Radical Brewing' recently. If I get sick of putting JW Crystal in every beer I make I will definately be doing this!

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys, this has been a big help!

Hopper.