James Squire Govenor King

[timbman]

Hi All,

I am trying to produce a clone of the james squire govenor king (its a pale ale). It has a description of the beer on the website (i have copied it below) and i have been trying to come up with a recipe. Has anyone every brewed a clone of this before. I have not looked into the details but generally the ingredients are

grain
base grain: premium pale pilsner malt
caramunich I
munich I
wheat malt (small amount)

for the hops i was going to use warrior hops for bittering and amarillo for aroma.

any comments?

cheers,
Tim

GOVERNOR KING
The blending of Munich and pale malts give this pale ale a full bodied flavour and a beautiful amber colour. Speciality selected hops add a tangy bitterness and a crisp floral aroma to the brew and it is served unfiltered directly from the cellar tanks to the taps.

 

[Fourstar]

Not that i have had it and i beleive its only avail at the Syd brewpub i'd go with something like this (JS use JW Malts exclusively AFAIK).

Also, have you had the grain you listed confirmed? Where did you get the info from? Just using their descriptor i'd go for:


OG 1.047
IBU: 28

80% JW Ale
15% JW Munich
5% Table Sugar

Bittering of Superpride to 23 IBU @ 60 min
Fuggles/East Kent Goldings to 5 IBU @ 10 Min

Wyeast 1056 or US 05 @ 18-20deg.

Right up JS's alley to me. Infact, thats pretty much the grain bill im going to use for my home grown Pride Of Ringwood.:icon_cheers:

 

[beers]

I haven't had it either, but I'd go with... nah, joking, I have had it.. but not in awhile. I *think* it's available in the other states under different names (Docklands Pale in Melb?)

Your best bet in getting something closer would be to hit up 'dig' he might be able to remember the recipe from when he used to brew it down at the MSB Brewhouse on King St Wharf.

 

[timbman]

thanks,

i made up that grain bill from the description. ive never made a clone before so wasnt quite sure how what to put in it.

 

[Fourstar]

thanks,
i made up that grain bill from the description. ive never made a clone before so wasnt quite sure how what to put in it.

well they dont say anything about crystal or wheat so i'd count them out. If its the portland pale equivilant thats served in russel st at the portland hotel i'd go for 90% JW ale, 5% Munich and 5% Table Sugar. Definitely JW ale.

This is the description for the docklands pale.. similar details with fuggles in the descriptor.

DOCKLANDS PALE ALE
Brewed with all pale and Munich malts, James Squire’s Pale Ale is rich and robust with the earthly floral dry hop character of Fuggles hops. Made for tastng with respect. It compliments the Brewhouse chicken.

 

[tommo tl]

well they dont say anything about crystal or wheat so i'd count them out. If its the portland pale equivilant thats served in russel st at the portland hotel i'd go for 90% JW ale, 5% Munich and 5% Table Sugar. Definitely JW ale.

Table sugar?? To an all grain??

 

[Fourstar]

Table sugar?? To an all grain??

You better believe it! :icon_cheers:

It lowers FG slightly with a boost of alcohol. Easy way to help dry it out and thin the body slightly. Either that or use rice or corn instead if you want to keep it 'all grain'. Im not advocating adding 20% of your grist as table sugar, just enough todo what it needs todo, dry the beer out. I can almost guarantee JS uses sucrose/brewing sugar in their beers. Maybe not in their house beers, but definitely in their bottled lines.

Ive made a fair few beers with a tad o sugar and it does what i want from it, i know BribieG lurves the suggaz. :icon_chickcheers:

 

[timbman]

i dont really want to thin out the body. James squire beers are generally full body. There is a slight honey/buttery taste in the governor king that i cant quite work out

You better believe it! :icon_cheers:

It lowers FG slightly with a boost of alcohol. Easy way to help dry it out and thin the body slightly. Either that or use rice or corn instead if you want to keep it 'all grain'. Im not advocating adding 20% of your grist as table sugar, just enough todo what it needs todo, dry the beer out. I can almost guarantee JS uses sucrose/brewing sugar in their beers. Maybe not in their house beers, but definitely in their bottled lines.

Ive made a fair few beers with a tad o sugar and it does what i want from it, i know BribieG lurves the suggaz. :icon_chickcheers:

​

 

[Fourstar]

i dont really want to thin out the body. James squire beers are generally full body. There is a slight honey/buttery taste in the governor king that i cant quite work out

Hmm honey characteristics might come from the use of caramalt but i find the portland pale (if its close enough to being the same beer) to have a big raw doughiness to it. This i usually get from grists using JW Ale and minimal specialties.

 

[beers]

Table sugar?? To an all grain??

Of course. It lends "a full bodied flavour and a beautiful amber colour"

 

[Fourstar]

Of course. It lends "a full bodied flavour and a beautiful amber colour"

You obviously have no idea... Sugar, it has its place. Espeically in JS style beers.

 

[hazard]

You obviously have no idea... Sugar, it has its place. Espeically in JS style beers.

There was an interview with Chuck hahn in BYO a while ago. I'm pretty sure he said that Amber Ale includes 20% crystal AND sugar - I'll see if I can find it tonight.

 

[Bribie G]

Apart from German Reinheitsgebot lagers and the tiny percentage of beer (on a world scale) made by Micros in the USA since the 1970s I doubt if there's many beers that are all malt - although they could certainly be all grain. they are very often brewed with grain or sugar adjuncts, and not just for cheapness. In the USA up to 60% of the grist consisted of rice and corn because it was the only way they could get a consistent clear lager style beer out of their six row barley. In the UK grains and sugars were also introduced due to the high malt taxes, plus the appearance of persistent hazes when artificial fertilizers became common. Nowadays to brew an authentic style such as a Burton Ale or an Aussie Lager or a James Squire ale you have to do a bit of digging and find that the recipe usually contains a proportion of adjunct which gives that style its characteristics. UK and Australian beers use sugar because the UK was the centre of World Sugar (Tate&Lyle and other Victorian enterprises). There aint much rice grown in Cheshire. And Australia grows oodles of the stuff

Back on topic, I don't actually remember a Governor King at the JS pub in Sydney last year, would it have been under another name there? I had about eight pints there but not a GK.

 

[Fourstar]

There was an interview with Chuck hahn in BYO a while ago. I'm pretty sure he said that Amber Ale includes 20% crystal AND sugar - I'll see if I can find it tonight.

I wouldnt be suprised. From memory the amber ale is coloured with nothing but crystal malts. Interesting how they get that deep nutty characteristic.

 

[beers]

You obviously have no idea... Sugar, it has its place. Espeically in JS style beers.

Clearly.

I'm not arguing that sugar doesn't have it's place. Hell, even Chuck has stated it has a place in Australian Lagers - http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/805435...varian-beer-law. I do however question whether it does in a beer described as "full bodied" (& happy to be proven wrong if so.... but preferably by someone who has atleast tried the beer in question).

I recall hearing a few years back that Amber Ale was the only JS beer to use sugar - to cut the cloying sweetness I think Chucks words were (& rightly so if the 20% crystal part is true). Since then I have seen references to sugar added to the MSB Abbey beer..... but then again this thread is not about those beers.

 

[Fourstar]

Clearly.
I'm not arguing that sugar doesn't have it's place. Hell, even Chuck has stated it has a place in Australian Lagers - http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/805435...varian-beer-law. I do however question whether it does in a beer described as "full bodied" (& happy to be proven wrong if so.... but preferably by someone who has atleast tried the beer in question).
I recall hearing a few years back that Amber Ale was the only JS beer to use sugar - to cut the cloying sweetness I think Chucks words were (& rightly so if the 20% crystal part is true). Since then I have seen references to sugar added to the MSB Abbey beer..... but then again this thread is not about those beers.

Well if its the same as the docklands and portland pale ale. Yes, ive had it. Probabaly around 20-30 pints of the stuff. Is it full bodied? Well the palate/mouthfeel is moderate but finishes DRY... quite dry actually.

'Full bodied' is usually a marketing ploy to entice customers into thinging the beer is 'full flavoured' and not thin and watery as light beers are sometimes described.

Just so you know where my whole sugar idea come from. There is a well respected brewer on here who shall remain nameless (unless they want to put their two cents in) who has inside infromation @ MSB and according to clone recipes i have obtained from them, the JS Golden Ale and IPA also have sucrose/brewing adjunct in them. Direct from the horses mouth.

I wouldn't discount the idea of using sugar in this beer, after all 5% in a 5kg grist is merely 250g of table sugar, lucky to be 5 gravity points and WONT be noticable on the palate in the way of flavour. Just from my experience cloning JS malt bills, i'd always have some sugar in there.

 

[jwindfield]

Back on topic, I don't actually remember a Governor King at the JS pub in Sydney last year, would it have been under another name there? I had about eight pints there but not a GK.

It was definitely around back in Aug/Sep but not sure before then. I've had a few pints of it since (pretty much every Friday thanks to working at King St Warf) and it's nothing like the IPA there which looks similar to the docklands Pale Ale they have in Melbourne but not in Sydney. Infact looking at the website the description of the IPA and dockland are exactly the same....apparently both excellent with chicken.

Their Highwayman is my favourite although think I might start a new thread to get people's thoughts on that one.

 

[RetsamHsam]

Their Highwayman is my favourite although think I might start a new thread to get people's thoughts on that one.

+1

 

[Fourstar]

+1

:icon_chickcheers: