Is This Site Now The Craftbrewers Sales Site

[Darren]

The answer is simple, get yourself an old computer running netscape 7 on a dial-up connection and you cant see the advertisement anyhow!

For what its worth, I really couldn't give a stuff if Ross advertised in each post here so long as his products were within the topic and he offered some information with his post.
We learn from every post and every post should be allowed afaiac.

cheers
Darren


Probably a stupid question, Do you brew Dane? Never see any brew related posts from you!

cheers

Darren

 

[BrissyBrew]

wow still reading it all.

 

[Vangleator]

I agree with Darren, all info on beer is good info on beer. Brewers need suppliers & suppliers need brewers. I never gave it a thought how this site was run, or paid for. And I now know there could be 'spys' on the site that has made me aware that some of my views, if aired on this site could see the comp I run become devoid of certain sponsors.
This year, when I gave feedback to one of the sponsors (a kit manufacturer) via email with piccies of event showing a mash setup (to successfully educate the great unwashed how beer is made), the reply was if there was 'mash' brewed entries at the show they weren't too interested in future sponsorship. Probably thinking that the AG brewers would win & take the kit prizes and throw them in the bin. Wrong, the kits are given away by the AG brewers to other kit brewers if they don't use them.
Goes to show that sponsors want to target a particular market, and if they aren't happy with the results, they will move their sponsorship elsewhere. Ross, GMK & other commercial interests won't stay on this site if the returns don't match the effort expended.
There goes another 2 cents tonite. Crickey, thats almost a stubbie of homebrew. :lol: Think I better have another one now. :chug:

 

[mika]

Site Poll, put it to the masses (Mashers ? :huh: )
Personally I think the advertiser should post their name up front (ie Craftbrewer - New hop sock thingy's) and keep it to the Retail section.
Retail section should stay in current posts, otherwise what's the point ?.

Any in topic advertising, be promptly jumped on by the Mod's.

Easy done, life moves on.
RDWHAHB :beer:

 

[Brownie]

Frankly who cares.

This is a commercial world, it takes money to breath these days, to run a great site like this that we all use and abuse needs help financially.

Drink some beer and move on.

Or Makes some beer, then drink some beer, and start again.

Brownie

 

[Mr Bond]

:chug:

 

[poppa joe]

I think retail Section should stay in current posts.....
Not knowing how to work this forum completley...
I would never Know what is going on...
There is room for everyone....And do the other retailers contribute...??
GO ROSS And anyone else who will help this forum and it"s members

My two BOBS worth...
Cheers
PJ

 

[mika]

On this topic, I presume the Coopers Mild has this same yeast in it, and would probably be in even better condition being a lower alcohol beer than the pale ale.

[post="128985"][/post]​

Correct

[post="129005"][/post]​

Anyone else think Brauluver got lost ?? :blink:

 

[///]

An interesting debate.

Having been on these sorts of things for over 10 years there is a perspective called 'life cycle'.

The HBD was bezerk 7 odd years ago and peaked down. The OZ-Cb has gone thru a life cycle as will this forum. Tastes, formats and technology changes. Quality not quantity is my preference.

With advertising (or any marketing) the actions of these folks make for impression on the market. No matter how much is paid, the market will make thier judgments and thier decisions. That sticks with folks for ever more...

Scotty

 

[PistolPatch]

I seem to remember that the last time the bandwidth bill came in, it took a bit of concerted effort to raise the money. I just wonder how many active members make donations. Surely if every active member threw in $50 a year, that would make a huge difference? I just hope there aren't too many people taking the site for granted.

Doc and Dane, I really wish you'd throw a visa facility up as I can only use Paypal when I'm sober and it still takes me a while to remember my passwords etc! Visa is great for impulse buying! Also, moving the PayPal logo to the top of each page may help as I remember it took me some months to even notice it.

So, something's got to give and if it's not all active members, then it's excellent to have Ross. From what I know, he just started Craftbrewer mainly as an interest and a challenge - it's not as though he's doing it as a source of livelihood or is dependant on the income. The day he helped me with my first AG he had just spent 2 hours helping a new brewer with AG over the phone!

I've had great help from one or two other retailers on the site and I'm sure Dane will continue to show great judgement in who he chooses to be sponsors. Lucky for us that it's his show I reckon.

Cheers
PP

 

[MVZOOM]

Without the retail threads sticking into the 'Latest Threads' box, I'd not have seen either Ross's hops or Brissy's Temp Controllers -both products have helped my brewing immensley. The free advice that's been offered has also done the same!

They are unobtrusive by nature and don't concern me. Maybe the site admin should break the bandwidth / running charges to everybody, in order that the naysayers understand that it costs real $ to run and adminster a site such as this.

As many have said before, the community here seem to sort the weat from the chaff pretty quickly, and that kind of QC'ing is probably the most effective.

This is certainly one of the better forum communities out there, with lots of assistance and encouragement given to members.

Cheers - Mike

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

GET ON DOWN TO BERNI MAQUIGGANS.

Best deals on all second hand vehicles.

Guarantees available on request.

All Cars have 4 wheels.

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP

124 Hamilton Way Quansford.

Tell em Angel sent you

 

[lunanick]

by the by, that site I mentioned earlier sold recently for a rumoured $400,000.

it pays to favour your advertisers over your members, the people who actually give your site its value.

what we have here is a potential problem. I know if I was a site sponsor I'd be less than impressed if one of my competitors received free publicity. And if the site is receiveing a cut of sales, the temptation would be there not to bite the hand that feeds it.

nobody's saying advertising is bad. just keep it separate, or have it clearly tagged (something like "Advertising: Craftbrewer releases new hopsock"), and no grubby deals that rob the members of a free flow of information.

 

[Steve Lacey]

The only thing that concerns me about suppliers on forums is when they are so narrowly focused on advancing their own agenda that they continually want to promote their own business or make biased self-serving statements within the general discourse. That is, posts that are not demonstrably to the benefit of the members of the forum.

If they are explicitly informing the board about wizz bang products they carry or specials they might be running or a new load of fresh widgets, that's all fine and above board, provided they do so without gilding the lilley; discussion boards are, afterall, about the exchange of information first and foremost.

Sponsorship can probably come in degrees, ranging from 1) small anonymous donations to 2) a page of clickable sponsor names to 3) non-exclusive prominent logos to 4) exclusive site naming rights. Obviously the value of each option is different, and the site owner(s) need to be aware of the degree of control/independence that they cede to the sponsor in each case. Preferably they should cede no control at all.

The model I think that works best is the one that we seem to be moving towards, but has not been explicitly stated. Non-exclusive sponsorship, with sponsor logos appearing in header space, sponsors being bound by posting guidelines like the rest of us, and no supplier--sponsor or not--being immune from critical mention should someone have a genuine grievance. What sponsors should get for their money is the right to display their logo. That's it. Any kudos they get from helpful and informative activity on the board is obviously going to flow through as a positive to their reputation and their business. If the primary purpose is to help and inform, then more power to them. If the primary purpose is to pursuade and mislead, it will be seen through and hit for six.

In other words, as long as sponsorship or advertising does not interfere with the free flow of information without fear or favor, then let it be. Come one, come all. So far I haven't seen anything to be concerned about, but Ray's points were worth raising and this is probably an important conversation for the forum to have.

My 4c

 

[Darren]

GET ON DOWN TO BERNI MAQUIGGANS.

[post="129049"][/post]​

Could I use the wheels to mash in? Is the boot water-proof for a boil?

Ah, OK.

cheers


Darren

 

[dane]

The only thing that concerns me about suppliers on forums is when they are so narrowly focused on advancing their own agenda that they continually want to promote their own business or make biased self-serving statements within the general discourse. That is, posts that are not demonstrably to the benefit of the members of the forum.

If they are explicitly informing the board about wizz bang products they carry or specials they might be running or a new load of fresh widgets, that's all fine and above board, provided they do so without gilding the lilley; discussion boards are, afterall, about the exchange of information first and foremost.

Sponsorship can probably come in degrees, ranging from 1) small anonymous donations to 2) a page of clickable sponsor names to 3) non-exclusive prominent logos to 4) exclusive site naming rights. Obviously the value of each option is different, and the site owner(s) need to be aware of the degree of control/independence that they cede to the sponsor in each case. Preferably they should cede no control at all.

The model I think that works best is the one that we seem to be moving towards, but has not been explicitly stated. Non-exclusive sponsorship, with sponsor logos appearing in header space, sponsors being bound by posting guidelines like the rest of us, and no supplier--sponsor or not--being immune from critical mention should someone have a genuine grievance. What sponsors should get for their money is the right to display their logo. That's it. Any kudos they get from helpful and informative activity on the board is obviously going to flow through as a positive to their reputation and their business. If the primary purpose is to help and inform, then more power to them. If the primary purpose is to pursuade and mislead, it will be seen through and hit for six.

In other words, as long as sponsorship or advertising does not interfere with the free flow of information without fear or favor, then let it be. Come one, come all. So far I haven't seen anything to be concerned about, but Ray's points were worth raising and this is probably an important conversation for the forum to have.

My 4c

[post="129131"][/post]​

Great post Steve!

Just so it's on the record, Craftbrewer is 'a' AHB sponsor, it isn't the official or 'one and only' AHB sponsor. Craftbrewer just happened to be the first to contact me.

I am in discussions with a number of people about broadening the advertising on AHB. The retail section may have some fine tuning, but it anything it will just be some more clarification on what is appropriate and/or suitable for retailers to post in that forum. It will also control any 'customer to customer' public thread support, which if allowed, will go into a forum that wont be listed in the Recent Threads section.

The comments and constructive critisim that have been made in this thread are all being taken into account.

The number one goal of AHB is to provide a enjoyable community where people can share their thoughts, discussions, recipes and photos (well the latter two will get here one day) relating to beer brewing. Sponsors and Ad's will be apart of that but it wont invlove AHb aligning with someone in particular or pushing a particular brand of product.

:chug:

 

[Darren]

Probably a stupid question, Do you brew Dane? Never see any brew related posts from you!

cheers

Darren

[post="128943"][/post]​

Whilst you are here :beer:

cheers
Darren

 

[jimmy01]

I can't see the problem with Craftbrewer being allowed to post comments. Ross has always been the first to offer help to anyone in the brew community and his sponsorship helps AHB to maintain its service.

As to censorship, doesn't this thread prove that anyone can have their say and feel free to comment on site sponsors.

I'm sure if anyone starts blatantly promoting their own products that they'll soon get the short shift. The AHB forum members are not shrinking violets.

My 2c worth

Jimmy

 

[Mr Bond]

This forum rocks,
Ross Rocks,

Advertising is advertising.Its every where.Its subtle ,its blatant,its insidious and pervasive.
I know it when I see it and i treat it accordingly.

If a thread is of a promotional nature and irrelevant to me I won't read it!
If its gonna benefit me and save me money I'll read it.
The choice is mine!

I will continue to exercise my rights as a consumer and shop widely and randomly.
The fact that purchasing good Quality hops from an AHB member for cheaper than I can buy locally ,and supporting AHB(as a tithe)is an added bonus.
Even if it wasn't on the board I'd visit the retail section to see what was up.

If it wasn't from the help of Gerard @ ND brewing I wouldnt have been able to fulfill my organic ale(1st AG dream).
This forum provided that link.

I will continue to support my LHBS(Brewmaker Holden Hill)and purchase 90% of my gear from there as the knowledge/advice ,support and friendship/loyalty factor is important,whilst picking up other bits'n 'pieces from other sources if it benefits me financially.

 

[mika]

Angel Tears on My Tongue, please remove your post ! This is not the appropriate part of the forum, please limit all advertising to the retail section.

Dane really appears to be dodging the question