Is this an infection?

[Adr_0]

I have been removing the airlock and cracking the lid (sitting it on top) and then racking it through a length of sterilised food grade hose to swirl the priming sugar through the beer as it fills.
Obviously, I try to avoid breathing on it or exposing it to any nastys.
Is oxygen really an issue at this point as surely it would already be getting a big dose during bottling anyway, no?

Oxidation is one of those things that affect a portion of the compounds in beer if you're gentle, or a heap of them all at once if you dump your fermenter from 2m into your bottling bucket. To (hopefully) clarify, whenever there is exposure to oxygen, a certain amount of the compounds in the beer will be oxidised and convert to another chemical: typically aldehydes or ketones.

Last night I heard about a Chimay Blue that had been cracked open after 15 years and was apparently nectar of the gods. The lesson there was that, well, they might actually know what they're doing. There is also a school of thought that rough treatment of beer can lead to poor head retention.

So really, every little bit helps. Would you ruin beer by these 1%ers? Absolutely not: you might knock some shelf life off if you were planning on storing some. But IMO it's always good to have good habits, and if you're planning on storing it for a few months or even doing a 'vintage' batch then these things should be considered.

 

[All.Hopped.Up]

Oxidation is one of those things that affect a portion of the compounds in beer if you're gentle, or a heap of them all at once if you dump your fermenter from 2m into your bottling bucket. To (hopefully) clarify, whenever there is exposure to oxygen, a certain amount of the compounds in the beer will be oxidised and convert to another chemical: typically aldehydes or ketones.

Last night I heard about a Chimay Blue that had been cracked open after 15 years and was apparently nectar of the gods. The lesson there was that, well, they might actually know what they're doing. There is also a school of thought that rough treatment of beer can lead to poor head retention.

So really, every little bit helps. Would you ruin beer by these 1%ers? Absolutely not: you might knock some shelf life off if you were planning on storing some. But IMO it's always good to have good habits, and if you're planning on storing it for a few months or even doing a 'vintage' batch then these things should be considered.

Do you find that this tap to tap method adequately mixes the priming sugar through the beer before bottling or does It still require a stir? I have found with my last 2 batches (swirling the beer as described before) that some beers are more carbed than others ( I have had from flat through to a beer volcano) and I am wondering if this is down to the priming sugar not being evenly mixed through the brew. (I thought that was the whole point of swirling the beer)

 

[carniebrew]

I find the same thing, but mostly with the last few stubbies that I bottle on bottling day. I'm guessing the priming solution starts to settle towards the bottom pretty quickly after racking (or some just doesn't get mixed in properly).

I put a dot on the lid of the last 3 or 4 bottles (manticle put me onto this IIRC), and open those first for my testers, for pale ales those bottles are normally carbed within 4 or 5 days, whereas the rest take 10 days +.

The other day I found a bottle with a dot for a beer that was ~3 months old...opened it and as you say...volcano time.

EDIT: Although I don't get a problem with any being flat...not if I leave them a couple of weeks to carb. Are you finding flat ones even weeks after bottling?

 

[bum]

The other day I found a bottle with a dot for a beer that was ~3 months old...opened it and as you say...volcano time.

Are other beers from the same batch behaving themselves?

 

[All.Hopped.Up]

I find the same thing, but mostly with the last few stubbies that I bottle on bottling day. I'm guessing the priming solution starts to settle towards the bottom pretty quickly after racking (or some just doesn't get mixed in properly).

I put a dot on the lid of the last 3 or 4 bottles (manticle put me onto this IIRC), and open those first for my testers, for pale ales those bottles are normally carbed within 4 or 5 days, whereas the rest take 10 days +.

The other day I found a bottle with a dot for a beer that was ~3 months old...opened it and as you say...volcano time.

EDIT: Although I don't get a problem with any being flat...not if I leave them a couple of weeks to carb. Are you finding flat ones even weeks after bottling?

One of the beers has been bottled for over 2 months.
It is just a basic Coopers european lager kit with a hallertau addition primed with 140g of dextrose.
I opened one at 1 month to try it and it was carbed perfectly (if not slightly over carbed), but still a little green and the subsequent 4 bottles I have opened in the last week have been almost completely flat.

The Second beer was a wetpak pilsner from the country brewer which I only primed with 100g of dextrose as I thought the last beer was slightly over carbed from the first bottle.
It has been in the bottle for a month and the first one I cracked was again, perfectly carbed with great head retention.
The second bottle was also perfectly carbed.
The third bottle was a volcano and the subsiquent 4 bottles have been flat as a tack.

I am not really sure what is causing such variation between the bottles as I thought the whole idea behind bulk priming was continuity across the whole batch.

 

[Diesel80]

All hopped Up,

read a post from you on the last page.

Hot Tip: throw out the airlock and use gladwrap for a lid. Then you can peak in when you want to check things without opening up any lids. Secure it to the fermenter using the rubber band inside the lid itself. You won't go back unless you really miss the bloop bloop noise.

Sorry, can't help you with bottling, unless you move to kegs

Cheers,
D80

 

[carniebrew]

<snip>
The Second beer was a wetpak pilsner from the country brewer which I only primed with 100g of dextrose as I thought the last beer was slightly over carbed from the first bottle.
It has been in the bottle for a month and the first one I cracked was again, perfectly carbed with great head retention.
The second bottle was also perfectly carbed.
The third bottle was a volcano and the subsiquent 4 bottles have been flat as a tack.

I am not really sure what is causing such variation between the bottles as I thought the whole idea behind bulk priming was continuity across the whole batch.

You're right, bulk priming should give you consistency. I've never had the situation you mention, where some bulk primed bottles are flat, some well carbed. That is really weird. Anything different about the stubbies that are flat? I have a huge variety of stubbies, and swear (possibly very irrationally) that some stubbies make my beer taste different...particularly these thin, tall green ones that I think used to be Trumer Pils or some such (and yes they're all kept in the dark until drinking). But even those aren't carbed differently.

BTW, I don't do tap to tap, my racking hose is only big enough to fit on my bottling wand without the valve, so I run from my fermenter, through the bottling wand, into my hose which runs through the top of my bottling bucket and rests on the bottom to ensure no splashing. But I think that's how you're doing it too...so you have me stumped.

Problem with your crown seals maybe? Actually...I remember a guy once who was capping with crown seals from his missus' craft kit...turned out they didn't have the plastic seal under the lid, as they were just for show. Any chance you have some dodgy crown seals mixed into your inventory?

 

[All.Hopped.Up]

You're right, bulk priming should give you consistency. I've never had the situation you mention, where some bulk primed bottles are flat, some well carbed. That is really weird. Anything different about the stubbies that are flat? I have a huge variety of stubbies, and swear (possibly very irrationally) that some stubbies make my beer taste different...particularly these thin, tall green ones that I think used to be Trumer Pils or some such (and yes they're all kept in the dark until drinking). But even those aren't carbed differently.

BTW, I don't do tap to tap, my racking hose is only big enough to fit on my bottling wand without the valve, so I run from my fermenter, through the bottling wand, into my hose which runs through the top of my bottling bucket and rests on the bottom to ensure no splashing. But I think that's how you're doing it too...so you have me stumped.

Problem with your crown seals maybe? Actually...I remember a guy once who was capping with crown seals from his missus' craft kit...turned out they didn't have the plastic seal under the lid, as they were just for show. Any chance you have some dodgy crown seals mixed into your inventory?

They are 500ml bottles from zywiec and Brok cases and I have to say I enjoyed emptying the bottles immensely.
They were new crown seals from a fresh packet both times... so that is not the problem.
I have been bottle conditioning them in a cupboard in the garage which contains our water heater and seems to keep a pretty constant 18-20 degrees, and then transferring them under the house after a few weeks.
I am wondering if the colder conditions have put the yeast back into suspension and they weren't actually finished conditioning the bottles before I transferred them under the house?

 

[Pokey]

Probably a stupid question but is the priming sugar dissolved or just dry in the bottling bucket?

 

[carniebrew]

Dissolved, boil around 200ml of water with the priming sugar in it until it's all dissolved, then pour that into your bottling bucket.

 

[All.Hopped.Up]

Dissolved, boil around 200ml of water with the priming sugar in it until it's all dissolved, then pour that into your bottling bucket.

That is what I do.

 

[jotaigna]

I've had an instance of uneven carbonation out of a bulk prime.
The culprit: cold crashed lager at 0C, on a 1C day racked onto boiling hot priming solution. I noticed it the next time I did it, that they didnt mix at all and the bottom residue was cloyingly sweet.
Odd, I know.
There was enough difference in densities (because of temperatures) for both solutions to stay mostly unmixed, like it happens sometimes with cordial.

Solution: I use a vynil hose to avoid oxydation, so when the racking ends and I gently stir the mix for a minute (just to get the whole thing moving, no bubbles please) as a matter of course.

Beautiful carbonation beads ever since.

 

[carniebrew]

I was never much good at science, but if you're racking say 20 litres of 0C beer onto a couple of hundred ml of boiling hot priming solution, wouldn't that priming solution become very cool, very quickly, allowing it to then be mixed in well?

And it's been a long time since I've had any, but when did that ever happen with cordial? I can't recall ever having to mix it after pouring water onto it.

Anyway, nothing wrong with giving it a calm stir post-rack, and glad to hear you've solved your variation issue.