Is It Worth It?

[Flex Broker]

Have you tried using a minimash? With that, you mash a couple of kilos of grain (usually some pale malt and some specialty malts) in a strainer bag for an hour, and then add the rest of your malt extract. I used to do this in my oven and made some good beers before I switched over to all grain.

I think there's no question that once you get your equipment, AG is much cheaper. And there's plenty of resources on the web on how to cheaply build your own equipment if cost is a huge factor.

 

[mckenry]

Hi,
For the past month I have been doing heaps of research about how to improve my brewing. At the moment I brew K and k and add hops / malts etc. to enhance flavour. I have become a little obsessed with reading about AG brewing and I still feel I have some pretty fundamental gaps in my knowledge (and would still think I am a long way of making that transition). I guess my question in all this is whether it is worth making the move to AG in the future? I have read many, many people spruik about the difference AG makes and it seems to be the pinnacle of home brewing. Is there a way to try AG without going to the expense of setting up a mash tun and buying SS pots and burners etc.? I guess my ultimate question is, if I am reasonably happy with my K and K results is it really worth the expense and time commitment to take it the next level?
Cheers
aches

Hi achy,
Just thought I'd let you know my 'at the moment' method. I have all the gear for AG. I love a brew day. There's a romance factor of making your beer from scratch - bar actually growing the grain... And yes, the final product is worth it. Fresh is best - just like your grandma used to say. BUT these days, there is kids sport, riding bikes, running people around, work, gardening etc etc etc taking up the weekends - SO - I use Fresh Wort Kits. Used with a good yeast and a couple of bits (maybe steep some wheat malt, extra hops etc) IMHO is just a fanny hair behind AG. You can complete the brew day in less than an hour including all the extras. In fact, for basics only - 5 minutes if you just add the 6L water to the FWK with yeast supplied. FWK is far superior to K&K, and pretty damn close to AG. If you want really good beer, whatever the method, try FWK first, then decide if you want more control over your ingredients. If so, you must AG.
mckenry

 

[RobboMC]

We just spent a rainy weekend making REAL pasta. Our 4 boys can be picky eaters on their bad days, so we were a touch worried. With our inexperience we made far too much for one meal.
Sat was a wonderful lasagne, and the plates were all empty and on Sun we converetd the rest of the batch into a spagetti sort of thing and again they devoured it and were looking for seconds.

Compared to the packet stuff it took forever, but tasted 10 times as good.

Hmmmm, maybe here's a line of arguement I can use to get SWMBO to agree to some AG.

Anyone got an AG method that can be completed in 2 hours? On 10A hotplates?
I am getting a 5 litre mini-mash to the boil at the moment ( from 1 kg of grain ), will 4 of these
be sufficient for a decent size batch?

If I do 2 pots and a 10 litre brew, will all that air in the fermenter affect the fermentation?
What if I add another 10 litres a week later to the half fermented brew?

 

[cfresh]

Ive been away from the forum for a while and have only had time for K&K with a twist of hops and extracts.
Recently I have been asking myself the same question - Is it worth the extra effort when im so time poor.
I mean my creations have been from semi ok to pretty good but im searching for more.
Fortunately this thread was staring me in the face before I posted the same question and having read it I will try a FWK but im also looking for AG brewers in Melbourne SE suburbs so I can perhaps sample and observe an AG brew in the making.
Anyone know of such a group in the SE suburbs of Melbourne?

 

[braufrau]

We just spent a rainy weekend making REAL pasta. Our 4 boys can be picky eaters on their bad days, so we were a touch worried. With our inexperience we made far too much for one meal.
Sat was a wonderful lasagne, and the plates were all empty and on Sun we converetd the rest of the batch into a spagetti sort of thing and again they devoured it and were looking for seconds.

Compared to the packet stuff it took forever, but tasted 10 times as good.

Hmmmm, maybe here's a line of arguement I can use to get SWMBO to agree to some AG.

You're gonna make AG because your kids are picky drinkers and will drink it? :unsure:

 

[trevc]

There's at least one of my mates that now wants to get in on AG since he's helped out for a session, and tasted the results.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

achy, just ask if there is any homebrewer who turned back from AG to K&K.



Cheers mate :icon_cheers:

Nup, will not go back to K&K. Don't get me wrong, we all have to start somewhere. The problem I have is that my results are more than I expected. I have mates who do the BASIC can of coopers with a kg of malt and I find it tough trying to enjoy one of theirs when I have one of mine beckoning. I manage to find a spare Saturday or when I am on arvo's a spare morning. I think the trick to AG brewing in my case is to have a system where I can brew more. I am able to make 38ltrs in the fermenter. I get a buzz when someone calls around and see's how the real thing is done am evening getting the wife to try a few. I like the amount of control that I have. Now that spring is here its great to sit outside with a home made wood fired pizza and beer made from scratch. Nup I won't be K&King again.

BYB

 

[Stuster]

You're gonna make AG because your kids are picky drinkers and will drink it? :unsure:

:lol: :lol:

 

[warra48]

It's not necessarily cheaper than K&K, but as far as quality and choice of what you brew is concerned, it's worth every cent.
As a Porsche driver if his $200K car is worth it compared to a $20K Daewoo. Heck, of course it is.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Ive been away from the forum for a while and have only had time for K&K with a twist of hops and extracts.
Recently I have been asking myself the same question - Is it worth the extra effort when im so time poor.
I mean my creations have been from semi ok to pretty good but im searching for more.
Fortunately this thread was staring me in the face before I posted the same question and having read it I will try a FWK but im also looking for AG brewers in Melbourne SE suburbs so I can perhaps sample and observe an AG brew in the making.
Anyone know of such a group in the SE suburbs of Melbourne?

Hi cfresh

I am involved with the Melbourne Brewers that meet out at Boronia every month or so (next meeting is Sept 24th, non members welcome).

Meetings are pretty informal and the club is geared up to assist brewers at all levels, especially those looking at moving to all grain.

We regularly hold brew days where you get a chance to observe the process from go to woe ( well hopefully not woe )

Send me a PM if you want more details.

Cheers

Chris

 

[BEC26]

OK, after outlaying th costs for the "infrastructure", what is the cost fo a 23l bre?

I know this is going to vary, but a ballpark figure will do.

Here I was happily going the KK trip, and my local HBS changed hands and now we have all these grains for sale . . ..

cheers

 

[hockadays]

$20 per keg of 19L with imported malts and hops and that also includes gas.

 

[buttersd70]

geez, thats expensive. To quote a very wise man from several posts back in theis thread,

As far as ongoing costs, for 23L my last Best Bitter cost me 16.65 total. My regular session mild costs 13.54. The only thing not in this price is yeast, but split a wyeast pack up and use it for musltiple generations.......
How much is a half decent kit nowadays? plus adjuncts....Seems to me my investment is paying for itself, rather quickly.

 

[Josh]

There's at least one of my mates that now wants to get in on AG since he's helped out for a session, and tasted the results.

Geez how about the view!

I agree with the majority. You won't regret going AG. I did two batches today.

 

[hoohaaman]

although I've only started on K&K, I've got to wonder if you spend that much time and money on AG, if that's the reason the majority don't turn back?

I dunno though...I've just spent ~$1000 on kegging setup, just for kit and kilo brews. I'm scared at what I'd spend on All Grain gear, just to drink beer that may or may not be better than what I can currently do.

Like you I spent money on kegging K+k brews,if I knew what I know now i would have spent it on setting up AG.But that said I did some quick sums on just my basic AG setup

I have spent approx.$1350,just for beer making.Don't even start me on fridges,filters,kegs,ect.ect.ect



1/60LT mash tun-$119
1 beerbelly falsie-80
1 italian spiral burner-95
1 adjustable reg-50
1/60LT ally kettle-100
1 plate chiller-120
1 two tier brew stand-30(materials)
1 millmaster+hopper-299(second mill)
1 marga mill(soon going to a new home)-100
Plumbing and various bits and pieces-150
postage-200

I was quite surprised when I did the sums,I was expecting a fair bit more.Anyway without being a tightarse,for under $1400 some nice gear which will last a lifetime,or have great resale value within the community.

Oh as other guys have mentioned,once fully set up 30lt can cost as little as $12-15,bulk buying grain,yeast culturing ect
all good

 

[tazman1967]

I like AGs because of where I am I cant drink most of the beers that are around.. eg...imported beers. AG at lest gets me in the ballpark with the clone brews.

 

[achy02]

I guess it is time for an update. After a bit of deliberation and after reading such convincing posts I have made a tentative dip into AG brewing. I managed to scrape together enough gear: big pot (20L), stainless braid and hose, I used the bbq for a boiler and i used the no chill method to eliminate the need for an immersion chiller. I have left off 'esky' at this stage because I asked a mate to bring his esky but unfortunately it turned out to below 'food grade' standard and no amount of napisan was going to redeem it. I made a quick run to bunnings and bought an el cheapo 25L job for the time being. My first recipe was Dr Smurtos GA. Unfortunately, regardless of my preplanning, things didnt go totally to plan. I started on a friday afternoon and figured I would have the job the done and dusted before the footy. As it turned out my mates and I managed to 'cube' the brew around full time. I have to say, it was fun and smells and looks a hell of a lot like the real deal. Needless to say I have learnt a lot and next time I will allow myself plenty of time, fewer distractions and less beer along the way.
Ps the beer is bottled and the true test will be in about a weeks time. I cant wait.

 

[petesbrew]

I guess it is time for an update. After a bit of deliberation and after reading such convincing posts I have made a tentative dip into AG brewing. I managed to scrape together enough gear: big pot (20L), stainless braid and hose, I used the bbq for a boiler and i used the no chill method to eliminate the need for an immersion chiller. I have left off 'esky' at this stage because I asked a mate to bring his esky but unfortunately it turned out to below 'food grade' standard and no amount of napisan was going to redeem it. I made a quick run to bunnings and bought an el cheapo 25L job for the time being. My first recipe was Dr Smurtos GA. Unfortunately, regardless of my preplanning, things didnt go totally to plan. I started on a friday afternoon and figured I would have the job the done and dusted before the footy. As it turned out my mates and I managed to 'cube' the brew around full time. I have to say, it was fun and smells and looks a hell of a lot like the real deal. Needless to say I have learnt a lot and next time I will allow myself plenty of time, fewer distractions and less beer along the way.
Ps the beer is bottled and the true test will be in about a weeks time. I cant wait.

Well done. Did you get any photos of the brewday?

 

[achy02]

Well done. Did you get any photos of the brewday?

Unfortunately not. By the time we finished it was around 9.30pm and taking photos was the last thing on my mind. Would have been a good idea and probably a good recommendation for anyone in my boat, a great memory. I will be sure to post a pic of the end product though.

 

[buttersd70]

Well done, achy. Sounds like you managed it on a cheap setup, too. Bling makes things look good, but determination, planning, and research make it taste good. :icon_cheers:

In a few weeks, when your bottles are ready, I think you'll be able to answer your own question from the original post:

if I am reasonably happy with my K and K results is it really worth the expense and time commitment to take it the next level?

And don't forget, the first one is always the hardest. My first brewday took somewhere in the region of 10 hours due to multiple hesitations and lack of confidence, now I do it in 4 from start to finish, including cleaning up. And that is in a totally bling-free environment. :lol: