Ink Bird Controllers

[peteru]

The board with sockets has mounting holes on the back, for a secure fix to the wall. The control unit has a hanging hook. I think the idea is that you mount the sockets board and hang the control unit. You can then pickup the control unit to work it, if required. You always have the option to just loop the cable and mount both side by side. If you don't want to drill, some heavy duty double-sided adhesive tape will do the trick.

I have my compressor delay at 1 min. Cooling delta at 0.6C and heating delta at 1C. The delta temperatures will probably depend very much on the thermal characteristics of the entire system. My setting have so far resulted in minimal amount of cooling or heating cycles. I'm sure if you set the delta values too small, have poor air circulation or mount the probe in a sub-optimal location, you would end up with overshoot and the system would constantly switch between heating and cooling.

 

[BKBrews]

The board with sockets has mounting holes on the back, for a secure fix to the wall. The control unit has a hanging hook. I think the idea is that you mount the sockets board and hang the control unit. You can then pickup the control unit to work it, if required. You always have the option to just loop the cable and mount both side by side. If you don't want to drill, some heavy duty double-sided adhesive tape will do the trick.

I have my compressor delay at 1 min. Cooling delta at 0.6C and heating delta at 1C. The delta temperatures will probably depend very much on the thermal characteristics of the entire system. My setting have so far resulted in minimal amount of cooling or heating cycles. I'm sure if you set the delta values too small, have poor air circulation or mount the probe in a sub-optimal location, you would end up with overshoot and the system would constantly switch between heating and cooling.

Didn't notice the mounting points on the socket - will check that out better tonight. Either way, I'm going to get one of those 3M picture hooks to mount the control unit to the side of my fridge.

I'll leave my compressor setting and cooling/heating deltas at 1 degree and see how it goes. Anything will be better than the fluctuations my brews would have been going through in my cupboard haha.

I also plan on getting a ss brewtech brewmaster bucket before the end of the year, so the temp probe will likely be permanently installed in the thermowell of that.

 

[peteru]

the temp probe will likely be permanently installed in the thermowell of that.

Do experiment a bit with that. It may not necessarily be the best location when you use a simple temperature controller like this.

 

[BKBrews]

So I set it up this morning and probably need to play a bit with the fridge itself to get the right level of cooling when it turns on. I set the temp to 19 degrees on the ink bird with a 1 degree +- variance and it appears to drop to 18 degrees pretty quickly and then slowly rise to 20 degrees before quickly going back to 18 when the fridge kicks back in. Don't know what I was expecting but it still doesn't seem like a perfect control!

 

[peteru]

The location of the probe will be critical. Ideally you want the probe to measure mainly the temperature of the fermenting vessel and it's contents, but you do want some degree of ambient temperature influence.

I positioned the 30cm probe against the side of the fermenter, ensuring that it makes good contact with the vessel for most of the length of the probe. I have not insulated the probe against ambient temperature at all. My fermentation chamber (converted freezer) has an IP55 rated (noisy) fan for air circulation and that makes a big difference to the efficiency of heat exchange and as a result the accuracy of the temperature.

With a converted freezer, there is not much control over the cooling capacity. It just goes hard when it's on. As a result you get condensation and rapid temperature drop.

I did have some choice in terms of heating. I did a bit of research and found out that to raise the temperature of approximately 20-25 litres of water by one degree Celsius in one hour, I would need a heat source somewhere around 25W. I figured I did not really want the temperature to go up any faster than that. I ended up buying a heat cable designed for terrariums, which is moisture proof and the heating segment of the cable is 3m long. The one I ordered from an Australia vendor came with suction cups, which made it very easy to mount the heat cable on the plastic insides of the freezer. Having the heat source evenly distributed over a large area and completely flexible allows various options, including wrapping the cable around the fermenter if you need to get more heat into the vessel.

Also, be aware that this is a simple controller, so you are never going to get a steady ambient temperature. You would need a much more complex system for that. However, when you take it into perspective, ambient variations of 2C are perfectly fine for fermenting beer. As long as you can dissipate the excess heat produced by the fermentation and compensate for cold ambient temperatures, your beer should be fine. A fermenter left in the back room at my place would see ambient fluctuations of 20C or more and worse still, it would be impossible to keep the wort/beer under about 25C for most of the year.

 

[BKBrews]

Do experiment a bit with that. It may not necessarily be the best location when you use a simple temperature controller like this.

The location of the probe will be critical. Ideally you want the probe to measure mainly the temperature of the fermenting vessel and it's contents, but you do want some degree of ambient temperature influence.

I positioned the 30cm probe against the side of the fermenter, ensuring that it makes good contact with the vessel for most of the length of the probe. I have not insulated the probe against ambient temperature at all. My fermentation chamber (converted freezer) has an IP55 rated (noisy) fan for air circulation and that makes a big difference to the efficiency of heat exchange and as a result the accuracy of the temperature.

With a converted freezer, there is not much control over the cooling capacity. It just goes hard when it's on. As a result you get condensation and rapid temperature drop.

I did have some choice in terms of heating. I did a bit of research and found out that to raise the temperature of approximately 20-25 litres of water by one degree Celsius in one hour, I would need a heat source somewhere around 25W. I figured I did not really want the temperature to go up any faster than that. I ended up buying a heat cable designed for terrariums, which is moisture proof and the heating segment of the cable is 3m long. The one I ordered from an Australia vendor came with suction cups, which made it very easy to mount the heat cable on the plastic insides of the freezer. Having the heat source evenly distributed over a large area and completely flexible allows various options, including wrapping the cable around the fermenter if you need to get more heat into the vessel.

Also, be aware that this is a simple controller, so you are never going to get a steady ambient temperature. You would need a much more complex system for that. However, when you take it into perspective, ambient variations of 2C are perfectly fine for fermenting beer. As long as you can dissipate the excess heat produced by the fermentation and compensate for cold ambient temperatures, your beer should be fine. A fermenter left in the back room at my place would see ambient fluctuations of 20C or more and worse still, it would be impossible to keep the wort/beer under about 25C for most of the year.

Can you explain why having it placed in the thermowell might not be the best place for it?

I keep thinking that it would definitely be the best place, because the ambient temperature will fluctuate so much with the on/off of the fridge cooling. If installed in the thermowell where the vessel/wort fluctuates far less, there will be much less intervention from the controller. The fridge ambient temp might be 20 degrees which would normally kick the fridge back on, but the wort may be optimal at 18 and nothing needs to be done. As the wort will fluctuate far less, you could keep the variance as low as +- 0.5 degrees each side.

What am I missing?

 

[peteru]

In my case, the cooling is done by a freezer, so dropping the ambient temperature down to -10C is something that can happen very quickly. Outside the fermenter the air is constantly circulated by a fan, so there should be minimal hot/cold spots and fairly good heat exchange. Stainless steel will be even better at heat exchange. On the other hand, the contents of the fermenter are not being agitated and there will be a temperature differential between various locations. Chances are that the outside bottom part of the contents will be much cooler than the top layer near the center. By the time the probe inside a thermowell reads the target temperature, you might have rapidly dropped the temperature on the walls of the fermenter so much that the yeast will go to sleep and flocculate. Of course, with a freezer, you are also looking at a very rapid temperature drop - again something that is not great for the yeast. You want fairly gentle temperature variations during fermentation.

It's better to have a number of short runs that move you towards a target temperature slowly. You do not want to get to target quickly, possibly overshoot and then have the heater fight the temperature the other way.

 

[TwoCrows]

You should adjust you thermostat to minimum. Small amount of temp decline.
If this doesn't work then you really need a fridge not a freezer to control wort temp.

If I set my controller to 0.5 degree each side of optimum and also adjust my fridges thermostat control , I can control my temps to 0.5 degree. Overall !! It doesn't drop below my optimum temp. Doesn't get any better then that..

 

[Camo6]

Sucks when the airlock freezes when crash chilling too. (Pun intended)
I drop temp in a few stages. Gives the compressor a bit of a rest too. Get good results just insulating the probe on the side of the BB.

 

[peteru]

The Inkbird controller is the thermostat. There is no point in fiddling with the fridge or freezer thermostats. The compressor is either on or off, it doesn't spin any slower or faster when you change thermostat temperature. Setting the appropriate delta values on the Inkbird combined with sufficient air circulation and appropriate probe positioning is all that is required. As I said, it works well for me with the probe positioned against the side of the fermenter. The temperature of the wort/beer is within 1C of the target and more importantly there are no wild temperature swings. The compressor and heater are not running very often, so the system seems stable, rather than oscillating, so I'm happy.

 

[TwoCrows]

Quote : The Inkbird controller is the thermostat.

My inkbird is the power control or switch only....


You are correct, the compressor is running , but the duration controls to ultimate temperature outcome.
I have no need for fans or heaters to achieve a 0.5 overall temp discrepancy.
The fridge may run longer to cool and then ramp back up , works well.
Imagine a graph long cool short heat , then long cool short heat.

 

[BKBrews]

Quote : The Inkbird controller is the thermostat.

My inkbird is the power control or switch only....


You are correct, the compressor is running , but the duration controls to ultimate temperature outcome.
I have no need for fans or heaters to achieve a 0.5 overall temp discrepancy.
The fridge may run longer to cool and then ramp back up , works well.
Imagine a graph long cool short heat , then long cool short heat.

That was my understanding of how it works as well.....

 

[Camo6]

But you still want the fridge or freezer's thermostat on the coldest setting so it doesn't overule the controller's operation.

 

[Killer Brew]

I picked it up from the post office this morning and I must say, for $45 and the ease of use, I couldn't be happier. Plugged in and set up within 30 seconds. The only thing they could do better is having either a longer cooling/heating cord or building the heating/cooling sockets into the body. I want to hang it on the side of my fridge, but the socket makes it a bit awkward.

What does everyone normally set the compressor delay at? I left mine at the default 2min until I hear otherwise. I also left it with a 1 degree heating and cooling leeway.

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1473116316.918724.jpg

Good to hear. I now have the same one on its way to me also.

 

[TwoCrows]

It doesn't need to be at the coldest setting, the inkbird is only a switch and not the thermostat, it just may need more time to cool and not overshoot the desired temp.

 

[TwoCrows]

My inkbird switches on at 19.5 degrees and cools for about 7 minutes and then switches off at 19 degrees . Ramps up to 19.5 degress in 30 minutes and then switches the power on.

 

[BKBrews]

If the Inkbird was the actual thermostat the fridge wouldn't turn on and off. A fridge that only utilises the internal thermostat doesn't ever turn off - it just gets the fridge to the input setting and holds it there.

The inkbird just controls whether the fridge is on or off depending on the input temperature. If the temp reaches the highest allowed (e.g. 20 degrees), the fridge will kick back on and start cooling (at the FRIDGES thermostat setting). If the temp reaches the lowest allowed (e.g. 18 degrees), the fridge then turns off as to not go below this setting. It will naturally rise back up to 20 degrees while off before starting the process again.

 

[Camo6]

It doesn't need to be at the coldest setting, the inkbird is only a switch and not the thermostat, it just may need more time to cool and not overshoot the desired temp.

If you've got a fridge set to four degrees and your controller set to one degree then your fridge thermostat won't allow the compressor to reach the lower temp.

 

[Killer Brew]

Set your fridge thermostat as low as it goes. This will be the minimum temp that you will be able to achieve regardless of what your controller setting is.

 

[BKBrews]

I guess that's why you need to play with it and work out what's best for your setup.

If you're exclusively fermenting ales that need to be 18 - 20 degrees then there's no need to have your fridge thermostat at the coolest setting. Having it at the lowest setting might actually be more beneficial, as it drops between the variances slower than having it set really cold. If you're lagering/cold crashing then yes, you'd want to set your fridge thermostat at the coolest setting to ensure you can reach the desired temp.

 

[Batz]

The Inkbird measures the temperature inside your fridge, if it's to warm it switches the fridge on until the temperature is cold enough then it switches the fridge off. I'm not sure what you think a thermostat does that is different to this.

 

[BKBrews]

Yeah, you're right. I'm mainly just bringing up the fridge thermostat settings because obviously the lower you have these, the harder your fridge is going to work to get there as quick as possible. Or am I incorrect in believing that's how it works?

 

[Camo6]

The fridge thermostat will turn the compressor off at the set temperature. Turning it up or down won't change the rate at which the compressor works, it will just change the temp the compressor shuts off at.
Turn the fridge thermostat to it's coldest setting and let your controller make all the decisions. Simple.

 

[BKBrews]

Glad we got that out of the way..... Thanks (everyone).

 

[SBOB]

Yeah, you're right. I'm mainly just bringing up the fridge thermostat settings because obviously the lower you have these, the harder your fridge is going to work to get there as quick as possible. Or am I incorrect in believing that's how it works?

its not a dimmer switch
Its just an on/off switch... so you want to set it to the coldest possible so the external controller (Inkbird) is the new on/off switch as its smarter and tighter temperature control than your fridge thermostat

 

[Mattrox]

Yeah, you're right. I'm mainly just bringing up the fridge thermostat settings because obviously the lower you have these, the harder your fridge is going to work to get there as quick as possible. Or am I incorrect in believing that's how it works?

It takes the same power to cool from temp x to temp y.


If temp y is way lower than ambient, sustaining that temp works the fridge more.

If you set the fridge thermostat too high you won't be able to cold crash to 2 degrees.

Set the fridge thermostat lowest and let the controller do the work.

 

[TwoCrows]

Post #50 works well for me.

Post # 2 is using or wanting to use a freezer to ferment and allowing it to cool to -10 wont help his wort temps to well.

If cold crashing and or lagering , then the thermostat at its lowest setting. I normally use a different fridge as I put a new brew in the fermenting fridge.

 

[peteru]

I'm not sure whether a few of the posters in this thread actually know how a thermostat works, but it is basically an on/off switch. Most domestic fridge / freezer thermostats are pretty dumb and inaccurate. The Inkbird temperature controller with it's cooling socket is a much more accurate and smarter version of that. It performs exactly the same job as a thermostat, but it's a better one. If you adjust your fridge/freezer such that it's thermostat turns the compressor off while the Inkbird controller want it on, you have just introduced an unnecessary complication into your system. Once you task the Inkbird with controlling the temperature, you don't want the fridge/freezer thermostat to do anything except keep the compressor on. You could simply disconnect the thermostat and just wire the compressor to always on. Turning the thermostat to the coldest setting is a simpler option that will mostly achieve a similar result.

The fridge/freezer thermostat will usually measure the ambient temperature of the appliance. Most commonly there will be a capillary probe mounted somewhere on the back wall or under one of the shelves. Again, you can do better with the Inkbird controller because you have more control over where you position the probe. Positioning the probe against the object you want to cool makes more sense than measuring the temperature of the back wall.

Another factor to consider is the cooling capacity of the appliance. A fridge may have the capacity to remove enough energy to cool 25 litres of beer by 5C per hour, whereas a freezer could drop that temperature by 15C. Unless you are cold crashing, you probably want a gentler rate of change, which means multiple steps to drop the temperature. This is where the ITC-310T has an advantage over the 308. This is also where the probe positioning makes the difference.

If the probe is inside the fermenter, your compressor will keep cooling non-stop (i.e. at the fastest drop temperature rate it can achieve) until it gets to the target temperature. The difference between the fridge temperature and the beer temperature will be as big as possible until the beer reaches the target temperature. Then the cooling will stop. It is possible that due to the remaining temperature differential, the beer temperature will continue dropping and you will get overshoot.

If the probe is on the outside of the fermenter and the ambient temperature contributes partially to the readings, you are effectively measuring the "average" of the beer and fridge temperature. This means that as you start approaching the target temperature the difference between the beer temperature and fridge temperature will start getting smaller and smaller until they are the same. However, on the way there, you will reach points where the the "average" temperature is at your target and the compressor will turn off. This will result in a gentler rate of change, which is desirable as far as fermentation goes.

If you had a more sophisticated controller then taking a reading in the thermowell may well be more appropriate. If you could have multiple inputs you would also want a reading of the fridge temperature. A more sophisticated controller could allow you to control the rate of change and take into account the lag. The Inkbird controllers are not that - they are essentially just better thermostats and so you need to take the temperature at the right spot.

 

[moonhead]

Finally got my ITC-308 up and running this week. Have to say, super easy and straight forward, would recommend. Compared to how much time and effort it would have taken to get an STC1000 up and running, i'll gladly pay the extra $30 (not even considering how much all the additional parts needed to build a full STC1000 controller would cost).

Haven't had it switching the cooling yet, it's been too cold! But for heating it, well, works. (it's a pretty simple device, not sure what else to expect!)

I'm using a heat pad for heating, so it's a very gentle/slow heat, for that reason I'm finding almost no overshoot with the heating. Currently got the heating delta set at 0.5 degrees, will need to keep an eye on this over the warmer months I think, see how much my fridge overshoots in the cooling. NFI what to set the cooling to yet... will need to see how well the temperature holds I think.

Glory shot, mounts nicely to a wall -

 

[sp0rk]

Post # 2 is using or wanting to use a freezer to ferment and allowing it to cool to -10 wont help his wort temps to well.

Uhhh, that's not what's going to happen at all...
I ferment in a stand up freezer and have it set to the lowest setting (on the freezer)
My temp controller (which has now been replaced by an ITC-310T) turns the freezer off before it reaches -10
Probably have a good read of the explanation a few posts up from yours, it explains the facts well