Infection Yet Again! - In Bottle.

[prodj]

Hi all. New brewer here.
I've done a lot of reading over the past 3 or 4 months, a vast majority on these forums.
Thought Id share my first experiences with all and provide some pics of my infection.

Two of my first few batches have both failed the same way. Getting a growth that appears on the bottle walls, and presents a very thinned algae like growth in bottle from the walls. I'd say it could be called a seaweed type growth also, as i have read. It changes the beer into a very cidery flavour like champagne also i'd say. Moiving the bottles around causes it to rain dandruff inside the bottles from the infection. After 4 weeks or so the suspended algae like growth dissapears from bottle and only gorwth on the sides remains.

If anyone could point out anything that may be the problem i'm all ears. I've personally blamed brewshield. Now Using Starsan.
I would really like to know what kind of infection it is also. Would it be suicidal to down a bottle?



...The long story/info

First Batch (Ever)
Coopers Pilsner + 1kg LDME
Saflager S-23
Fermentation started without issues.
avg. temp 15
In fermenter for 4 weeks. (didnt know at the time about continual C02 coming off beer after fermentation)
FG 1012
cold chill 4weeks
Bottled. - I was however fortunate enough to sample one beer from this batch after it was two weeks in the bottle. (best damn pilsner i ever had :icon_cheers: )
A week later upon inspecting the rest of this batch to put some in fridge, I saw they all had this infection. (Devastated)

Third Batch
Morgans Blue Mtn + 1kg LDME. 15g fresh Perle 10mins (boiled them in just water, now know better)
Safale US05
Fermentation started without issues.
Temps 16-18 8days
FG 1011
cold chill 4weeks
Bottled 17/11/09
I was showing these bottles off to Mrs on 20th about how clear they are. Today checking they have the same infection as first.

My sanitiser used for these was Brewshild.

Would say i have good procedure for sanitation on both brew day and bottling.
All work areas sprayed with sanitiser. All parts pre cleaned with hot water, disassembled if possible & no rinse sanitiser soaked, extra long items (bottler)
rotated around to ensure 100% coverage soak. Bottler tube filled with sanitiser, fitted & sprayed after and mid way of bottling also. Also Bottle caps & can opener sanitised too. Bottle caps in shallow dish in sanitiser solution during use. I have a bottle tree (also pre sprayed) that bottles are on while bottling.

Only thing i didn't sanitise was the sugar & water used in both these batches. I used a collection of beer & champagne bottles on both batches. I cleaned all bottles from first infection with hot water then boiling, then bleach, then boiling rinse, then brewshield rinse. I used majority of them in the second infected batch. All bottles are infected in this latest batch.

Because of the infection in the first batch, I filled a clear bottle with a pre sample around the 2 week mark of its cold chill. It does not appear to have infection signs. I sort of did this as a warning so if it had infetcion i would not waste time bottling & cleaning. So i'm pretty $hitty about that too. :angry:
But on the good side i may just get one bottle from another of my super exclusive brews. :huh:

My 2nd Batch (Ginger beer recipe from here somewhere) which appears succesful as Ive enjoyed a few bottles so far. Only differed that it did not have a cold chill & bottled into new sanitised coopers pet bottles.

I have only just received an order of Starsan. Used it in the bottling for my batch of Wassa's choc porter recipe. But not brew day. So I'm praying that this works out.

 

[kenworthy]

I dont know what it is ,but whatever you do,dont let it out!

 

[Georgedgerton]

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on quality of the infection. In my 40 years of brewing that's about as good as I have seen.

Couple of things, infections that bad can cause high pressures in the bottles so I wouldn't go staring into the bottles one may let go and you won't be a happy little chappy.

If the infection is in all the bottles than it's most likely at the fermentation stage. Yes bugs can arrive in the water if yours is out of the tap and into the fermenter, as can the sugar carry bugs but I believe less likely.

When you clean and sanitise the fermenter don't forget to remove the tap and claen any gunk out of where it screws into the fermenter - a great place for bugs to hide and keep infecting subsequent batches. Also remove the lid seal, grommets and sanitise.

Leaving the brew in the primary for four weeks is a long time and gives bugs a fighting chance because of the higher temperatures, and in my opinion not a good idea. You don't need to cold crash for four weeks either, get it in the bottle and let it condition there.

I'm sure a few others will add a few suggestions as well, hang in it will come good - I hope

 

[Cocko]

I would be trying some LSD, then watch the bottles... awesome!

Sorry I cant help but maybe I have!

Seriously, good luck, I hope you sort it out!

 

[Gopha]

Hi, In my early days of brewing I had a similar problem, my process was to soak my bottles in sanitizer rinse and bottle my beer.
Now I wash all my bottles with pink stain using a bottle brush and a cordless drill, then throughly rinse the bottles with clean water and allow to drain,the day b4 bottling.
On bottling day each bottle is re-rinsed with no rinse sanitizer allowed to drain and bottled, never had a problem since,
The secret to clean bottles I feel is to use some elbow grease with a brush. Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Hi all. New brewer here.

If anyone could point out anything that may be the problem i'm all ears. I've personally blamed brewshield. Now Using Starsan.

Hi, In my early days of brewing I had a similar problem, my process was to soak my bottles in sanitizer rinse and bottle my beer.
Now I wash all my bottles with pink stain using a bottle brush and a cordless drill, then throughly rinse the bottles with clean water and allow to drain,the day b4 bottling.
On bottling day each bottle is re-rinsed with no rinse sanitizer allowed to drain and bottled, never had a problem since,
The secret to clean bottles I feel is to use some elbow grease with a brush. Cheers

Good Practice!


Sanitation.....most important aspect of brewing. Other brewing slack off's result in beer that you can most likely drink, but most infections mean you loose the money, time, effort, and beer. A few pointers.

Search and read all you can re sanitation.

After use of brew kit and bottles:

Clean ASAP. For this use a CLEANER like napisan

Store. In a clean dry place.

Before use of brew kit and bottles:

Before use break everything down, remove taps, 'o' rings etc. Sanitise using a SANITISER, best if it's no-rinse like Iodophor, Starsan etc.

If an infection has taken hold in your brewery you need to add this step before sanitising with no-rinse sanitiser:
Sanitise everything by soaking in bleach solution. Rinse with clean tap water then proceed with no-rinse sanitisation step.

Bugs love warm temps, ferment until at terminal gravity and leave for one more week to clean up then reduce temp to 1 - 2 degrees. This also causes yeast to drop out of suspension and clears your beer. If you're not using fermentation temperature control drop the temp once at terminal gravity.

Search and read all you can re sanitation again.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[prodj]

Thanks all.

Yes, all tap parts & lid were disassembled (both new fermenters) and brewshield soaked for these brews. However I didnt remove O-rings for my latest batches, but will now make it routine.

My ginger beer worked out fine but it was into the bottle within a week of brewing, so I guess nasties would not of had a chance to take hold.
My choc porter was transferred to secondary in fridge for 1 week, just bottled on the weekend. So time will tell if it two suffers the same fate.


Seems like my tap water could be questionable and long fermentation / storage of the beer gives it a chance to grow. Soon as it gets some sugar in the bottle it just takes over. Yeast must be too slow off the mark once its been in fridge for so long. Beer samples from various stages taste fine/great until it shows up in the bottle.

 

[raven19]

It is the worst thing to lose batches of beer to bugs!

It may be worth teeing up a fellow Melbourne brewer to pop around for the next brew to cast a second set of eyes over the process.

Some great pointers in posts above, all the best with sorting this issue.

Definately remove and clean the O-ring in the lid, and 'pop' open the plastic tap and clean it entirely. Worst case buy a few replacement ones from the big green shed, clarke rubber or your LHBS.

 

[Screwtop]

Thanks all.

Yes, all tap parts & lid were disassembled (both new fermenters) and brewshield soaked for these brews. However I didnt remove O-rings for my latest batches, but will now make it routine.

My ginger beer worked out fine but it was into the bottle within a week of brewing, so I guess nasties would not of had a chance to take hold.
My choc porter was transferred to secondary in fridge for 1 week, just bottled on the weekend. So time will tell if it two suffers the same fate.


Seems like my tap water could be questionable and long fermentation / storage of the beer gives it a chance to grow. Soon as it gets some sugar in the bottle it just takes over. Yeast must be too slow off the mark once its been in fridge for so long. Beer samples from various stages taste fine/great until it shows up in the bottle.

Do you sanitise your bottle caps too??

Screwy

 

[rackemup]

looks like the matrix is raining numbers in your bottle!

now where did i put that tab...

 

[prodj]

Do you sanitise your bottle caps too??

Screwy

Yeah read it was unnecessary. But being that it was the first of my batches I didnt risk anything.

 

[kentr]

Yeah read it was unnecessary. But being that it was the first of my batches I didn't risk anything.

Looks like someone sneezed into the fermenter before they put the lid on.

 

[OzBeer_MD]

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='557959' date='Nov 24 2009, 01:00 AM']looks like the matrix is raining numbers in your bottle!

now where did i put that tab...[/quote]

Is it a white rabbit clone?

 

[fergi]

Thanks all.

Yes, all tap parts & lid were disassembled (both new fermenters) and brewshield soaked for these brews. However I didnt remove O-rings for my latest batches, but will now make it routine.

My ginger beer worked out fine but it was into the bottle within a week of brewing, so I guess nasties would not of had a chance to take hold.
My choc porter was transferred to secondary in fridge for 1 week, just bottled on the weekend. So time will tell if it two suffers the same fate.


Seems like my tap water could be questionable and long fermentation / storage of the beer gives it a chance to grow. Soon as it gets some sugar in the bottle it just takes over. Yeast must be too slow off the mark once its been in fridge for so long. Beer samples from various stages taste fine/great until it shows up in the bottle.

couple of things, i dont think it is your tap water, i always use tap water and never a problem, it has been filtered ,cleaned, chlorined and a few other things, however i do have an issue with using straight rainwater out of a tank, this water is untreated and all the nasties that are in the tank,well who knows, though if you are using rainwater i would boil it first then cool it down, now you say that quote"yeast must be to slow off the mark once its been in the fridge for so long" unquote, now this reads to me that you are chilling the bottles in the fridge b4 you gas them at room temps, maybe i am reading this wrong. your procedures for cleaning look great, far better than most people i would think, try not leaving the brew in the fermenter so long, this is a bit of a concern, one more thing if you have a mate that brews borrow his fermenter just to make sure that you havent got any bugs in yours.

cheers
fergi

ps, just noted you dont chill bottles in fridge ,just fermenter, i still dont think there is a need for this process to be so long, a week will do, rest will clear in to the bottom of the bottle.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Could I suggest you open a bottle and pour it into a glass, taste it and then determine if its an infection or not.

I suggest this because as I only bottle my beer I get something that looks very similar in some batches from time to time but its not an infection its Yeast.

I go through a regular process of CC, gelatine + filtering and the beer goes into the bottle "glass clear" then after about 5-7 days as the priming sugar begins to take effect it kicks up some yeast haze and sometimes it clings to the sides of the bottle which is rather frustrating yet when poured into a glass its not visible and tastes fine it just looks unappealing in the bottle.

You may have an infection, but taste it first and you will soon know.

Cheers,
BB

 

[rackemup]

Could I suggest you open a bottle and pour it into a glass, taste it and then determine if its an infection or not.

I suggest this because as I only bottle my beer I get something that looks very similar in some batches from time to time but its not an infection its Yeast.

I go through a regular process of CC, gelatine + filtering and the beer goes into the bottle "glass clear" then after about 5-7 days as the priming sugar begins to take effect it kicks up some yeast haze and sometimes it clings to the sides of the bottle which is rather frustrating yet when poured into a glass its not visible and tastes fine it just looks unappealing in the bottle.

You may have an infection, but taste it first and you will soon know.

Cheers,
BB

pretty sure he said it tastes like champaigne/cider

 

[schooey]

Not all is lost, dude.. It makes an awesome desktop background..

 

[arogers]

View attachment 33410

Not all is lost, dude.. It makes an awesome desktop background..

:icon_chickcheers:

 

[bowie in space]

I soak my bottles in Oxyper from Grain and Grape...main ingredient being sodium percarbonate. I pour about 40g into my laundry tub and turn on the hot water until the tub is about 20% full. I then turn off hot and turn on cold water until tub is full. The tub holds about 24 longnecks. I make sure all the longnecks "bloop-bloop-bloop" until they are full with water and let them soak overnight. I always soak any other bottling equipment overnight too, such as 25L drum for bulk priming, any other priming tools, bottle caps, the push down thingy that squirts water up into the bottles (don't know the exact name for it) ... pretty much anything I'm using the next day.

Next day, drain everything and rinse everything with hot water from tap. Drag my bottle tree to the kitchen, fill my push down thingy with an iodopher mix and steralise all bottles. Use iodopher on anything that is going to be used in the bottling process, including 25L drum, PVC tubing, bottle caps, etc. Then I bottle as normal. I try not to let any nasties in so sanitation is of upmost importance and normal tap water is always used. After boiling priming sugar I always cover and let cool for about an hour. I also cover the 25L drum ASAP after transfering beer to the priming solution and cap all bottles straight away.

Don't know what's causing your infections but I hope the info above helps.

Bowie

 

[bowie in space]

Also forgot to mention...immediately store bottles in a closet or cupboard away from the light and any offensive heat for a week or two before putting into the fridge for chilling and consuming.

I don't recall ever having a bottle infection, just a couple of infections and bad tastes due to poor fermentation temperatures and sanitation issues, both of which have since been rectified.

Good luck

Bowie