Infection In My Bottles

[WhoWeR]

I have now had 2 infected batches one after the other. After the first one I thought It must have been either,

1. the fermenter not being clean enough
2. kids breathing over everything
3. It was also my very first bulk prime

I ruled out bottle cleanliness because it was in every bottle. I cleaned/scrubed/bleached everything. Started the second batch the same way everything was fine. After fermentation the smell and looks are fine, I have never tasted it out of the fermenter. But the first batch after six weeks tasted like crap. Two weeks after bottling fungus starts to show on the sides of every bottle. Here are some details about the batches.

Batch 1
Blue mountain larger kit
start SG (didn't check)
Final SG 1.006
Bulk prime 140g/210ml
7 days in fermenter
Temp 25-28

Batch 2
Blue mountain larger kit
start SG 1.034 (Before yeast added)
Final SG 1.010
Bulk prime 160g/200ml (increase - not much carbo in batch 1 didn't think infection would cause this )
12 days in fermenter
Temp 25-28

I have another batch on at the moment due to finish in a few days. I think i will get some carbo drops insted. So I'm running on dry as I have only just started out. If anyone has any suggestions PLEASE HELP

Thanks

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

G'Day WhoWer

I might not be of much help however I also have the children breathing/poking fingers into my nice clean bottles while "helping" me bottle. haven't had an infection yet.


Not sure exactly what your drama is. The Pic is a bit blurry. What do you mean when you say it tastes like crap? check out this site for some common brewing off flavours. Is the "fungus" different to the sediment that you normally get in bottled homebrew?


Cheers

MOM

 

[peas_and_corn]

You need to pay a lot of attention to how your beer tastes at all points, so that you know when the infection was introduced- that is, during fermentation or during the bottling process.

That said, I recommend soaking your fermenters in bleach for a day at least followed by napisan or PBW and your regular sanitiser. Also replace your taps, they can be havens for bugs.

 

[manticle]

I'm not an expert on infections but I would do the following:

1. Buy a new fermenter and taps.
2. Clean everything in the area you brew with hot water and some kind of cleaner. Maybe try an oxygen bleach like napisan.
3. Mop the entire area with cold water and bleach. Maybe stand outside for a few minutes afterwards.
4. Go through your sanitation processes step by step. Try and identify where you may have thought "oh it'll be ok" and reassess whether or not you think it's ok.
5. Use unscented chlorine bleach, cold water and vinegar in recommended proportions on your new fermenter, taps etc. Read how to use bleach, vinegar and water if you don't already know (mixing the wrong parts together first can be toxic, using wrong proportions can lead to band-aid flavours).
6. Rinse everything with 90+ degree water. Make sure there is no bleach smell
7. Use a second sanitiser - could be no rinse, could be sodium met. Sodium met is often derided but as a secondary sanitiser, you are just being extra careful (has the added bonus of driving away chlorine. Rinse again with clean, boiled cooled water and use immediately.
8. Make sure the fluid in the airlock is sanitary - maybe use vodka this time around.
9. Seal the fermeter properly (properly, not tightly).
10 Use a hydrometer vessel and measure gravity from the tap, not in the brew (not sure how you normally measure it).

I bulk prime all the time with no issue but there supposedly is a risk. I'd look at your regime before blaming that though. Maybe next batch, bottle off 5 with carb drops then bulk prime the rest.

 

[WhoWeR]

I could not describe the taste of it as I never had much of it. There was not much fizz even after being shaken up. There is a ring around the inside of the bottle. It ends up coating the wall of the entire bottle. There are of particles floating in the beer from just sitting there, they do not settle. The particles are larger then normal sediment.

 

[manticle]

I ruled out bottle cleanliness because it was in every bottle.

Still worth going through the motions again - where did they come from, did you absolutely definitely clean them properly etc?

 

[mwd]

The picture is not very helpful.

If the beer tastes good from the hydrometer samples I would look closely at the bulk priming vessel and parts as second suspect and bottles third.

First suspect is the taps they are designed to bite you at every opportunity. :blink:

Edit: your fermentation temps are very high and time in primary is a too short as you will also pull loads of sediment over into the bottles.
Also what else did you add to the kit apart from Blue Mountain tin. ?

 

[AntCoop]

You mention that this is the second consecutive batch with infection.

I would be making sure the the tap is being taken out of the fermenter and the threads checked and the tap pulled apart. You will be amazed at what gets stuck in taps - yeast, hop particles if you use additional hops, trub etc.

Even though the fermenter has been sanitized it still will harbor infection if the tap area is not cleaned.

Bottle cleaning can be hard at times. I use a bottle brush on a cordless drill which gives a good clean. Also wash out bottles when they have been emptied straight away to prevent the sediment from going off or going hard in the bottle.

Other than this really it could possibly be the way you are going about your method making the beer with ingredients.

Hope this may help in some way, infections suck. :angry:

Coops :icon_cheers:

 

[Pennywise]

The ring aroung the bottle sounds like acetobacter, the fungus I've no idea, generally Acetobacter is just a film on top of the wort/beer

 

[WhoWeR]

The picture is not very helpful.

If the beer tastes good from the hydrometer samples I would look closely at the bulk priming vessel and parts as second suspect and bottles third.

First suspect is the taps they are designed to bite you at every opportunity. :blink:

Edit: your fermentation temps are very high and time in primary is a too short as you will also pull loads of sediment over into the bottles.
Also what else did you add to the kit apart from Blue Mountain tin. ?

I will give the Batch that is currently on a taste after fermentation. I am pretty sure I cleaned the taps enough but Could have done a better job. That could be where I am going wrong.

I needed the heater pad on for the colder mornings, but have no way of controlling the temp. The current batch ranges between 18-22. Is that any better?

How long should I leave it in the primary? I thought I had to leave it in there till I got the lowest possible reading.

I add a kilo of gemdex booster #10 Which I pick up from brewers world at caboolture.

One more thing when it comes to fermenters I have heard, you can not ferment beer in them after doing a apple cider. Is there any truth in this?

Thanks

 

[buttersd70]

One more thing when it comes to fermenters I have heard, you can not ferment beer in them after doing a apple cider. Is there any truth in this?

Of course you can, as long as it's properly cleaned and sanatised afterwards.

 

[svyturys]

Hi WhoWeR,
After reading your first post I feel , along with others, that we need more information.
I take it that this is not your first or second brew.
How many other brews have you done that were good?
Were they done at 25 to 28C like these ones?
( I note that you are currently brewing at 18 to 20C...which is ideal for an ale yeast.)
What type of yeast were you using for these two batches?

As "peas and corn" has mentioned you should taste the brew every time that you do a gravity reading. That should equate to AT LEAST 2 tastings.

If things are wrong at your fermentation stage these tastings will bring them to light.

Now here is a crunch. Leaving your beer for a week after you have got a good FG is not going to do it any harm, in fact it will be positive in that the yeast cleans up after itself.

With your current batch....take a reading tonight and taste it. Tell us how it it tastes.

Also tell us what you put in the brew...including the yeast.

Cheers

 

[WhoWeR]

Ok Ill get the misses to help as she can sometimes explain things better....



I have bottled 5 brews so far. Brew 1 was on the came with the home brew kit, it was a Brewcraft Premium Imported Munich Lager. It was ok but not the sort of beer I liked. Had some mates try it and they said it was ok for a first attempt. Brew 2 was the Blue Mountain Lager and it turned out fine no problems. Used the yeast that comes with the can and some sugar stuff front the home brew place and carbo drops. Didnt really keep any notes for the first two batches, was experimenting more than anything.

Brew 3 was the first to get infected. Used the Blue Mountain Lager kit with the yeast that comes with it and the Gemdex Booster #10. Fermented at 28-30 for 7days. Didnt taste it before bottling. First time bulk priming. After 6 weeks it tasted like crap (cant remember the actual taste) then I noticed the stuff on the inside the bottles. Its like the inside of a dirty fish tank (if anyone knows what I mean). There was lots of floaty bits and bits stuck to the inside of the bottle. Tossed the lot.

Brew 4 was an Apple Cider that didnt show signs of infection but just tasted like crud. It was done in a brand new fermenter. Tipped it out too.

Brew 5 was just bottled a week and a half ago. Used the Blue Mountain Lager with the kit yeast and Gemdex Booster #10 again. It was in the fermenter for 14 days at 25-28. Used the original fermenter. It stopped fermenting for a while and then started again just before bottling. Didnt taste it before bottling again. Bulked primed it. After sitting 1.5 weeks it has the same stuff building up on the glass. I opened one is have a look see. When first opened it smelt like weak vegemite but later smelt like a very poor beer. Had some fizz to it. Tasted like ear wax that clings to the back of your throat. FERAL.

Brew 6 is in the fermenter now. It is the Blue Mountain Lager again with the Gemdex Booster #10. It is fermenting at a lower temp this time, 18-22 and has been going since the 9th. Had a taste of it and it tastes ok. The SG is 1.011. I will leave it longer this time and taste it again before bottling.



From what I have read I have a lot learn. I am just starting and trying to sort out what I am doing wrong. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[buttersd70]

ONe common thread in 1-5 is obviously temperature; however you've already noted that and taken steps to correct it. I think that infection is also an issue from your descriptions.

What is your cleaning and sanitation regime? What do you use, what concentrations, and what contact time? Do you remove the taps from the fermenters when cleaning/sanatising, and if so, do you break the tap open?

Also, do you prepare your brews inside, or outside? Same question for bottling, inside or out? If outside, was it windy, do you have fruit trees or flowering plants near by?

 

[svyturys]

OK WhoWeR,
A couple of things rang some bells.
One is the taste of vegemite. I am no expert but others will be able to explain it. I vaguely remember it as something to do with high fermentation temperatures.
I have never brewed above 22C so I have not experienced the stuff that happens when you brew at high temps. From what I have read it means that you get really bad tasting beer.

It sounds like brew #6 is going OK. If it tastes good from the fermenter it will be good, as long as there is no infection. This is the brew that you have at 18/20C.

I would suggest that you don't bulk prime at the moment. When you are starting out, keep things simple. Carb drops was where I started. (as you did)

As your present brew is tasting Ok, what I would do is take a reading every day, write it down and taste the stuff. If it tastes OK then it it is probably OK.
Keep us posted...don't bottle for at least another 6 days.

How do you clean your bottles?

Cheers

 

[QSR]

Some good replies to this concern.

Like others have said - have a good look at the tap.

Secondly ( one of which I do not believe is the concern ) both of your bad brews you mentioned Gemdex ??? Did you use gemdex on any other that was OK?

Thirdly, you have mentioned that one of your brews stopped bubbling....but then started to bubble again just before bottling - sounds like the yeast had not finished it's job yet and was still eating up fermentable sugars - so, it appears you may have bottled too early while the yeast is still to active.

And additionally to back up the previous paragraph.......you mentioned a weak vegemite smell???
What is vegemite - on the jar it says it is a "concentrated yeast extract". I am no expert, but I would suspect that the only thing that has gone wrong is that you have bottled your beer before fermentation has finished.

 

[svyturys]

Errr, one other thing,

I don't know anything about the Blue Mountain lager kit. If the supplied yeast is a real "lager" yeast then it should have been brewed at a temp of about 12C.
Even 18 to 20 is going to stress it. 28 C is going it to blow it out of the water.

Anyone know about that supplied yeast?

Cheers

 

[svyturys]

Errr, one other thing,

I don't know anything about the Blue Mountain lager kit. If the supplied yeast is a real "lager" yeast then it should have been brewed at a temp of about 12C.
Even 18 to 20 is going to stress it. 28 C is going it to blow it out of the water.

Anyone know about that supplied yeast?

Cheers

 

[jyo]

Errr, one other thing,

I don't know anything about the Blue Mountain lager kit. If the supplied yeast is a real "lager" yeast then it should have been brewed at a temp of about 12C.
Even 18 to 20 is going to stress it. 28 C is going it to blow it out of the water.

Anyone know about that supplied yeast?

Cheers

Na, it's not the yeast from the Blue Mountain kit. When I first started, i did heaps of these (nice kit) and i used to let mine get up to 27' in my back room (before i worried about temp control) it just affected the taste of the beer, no rank infectious tastes...
Shit....it must be the tap...

 

[rude]

I'll put my money on the tap.

Second brew I did infection.

Used a dowl to knock the inside of the tap apart & presto full of shite.

Hope you get it sorted do a search on cleaning & sanitation good luck.

the rudest one