immersion chilling then no-chil

[seehuusen]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about this for a little while, and reading another topic on immersion chilling not chilling to pitch temp unless using large amounts of cold water and/or ice cooled water I was thinking about combing the two methods?

I know that cooling to 40-50C is quite quick using tap water.
I've read numerous reports that hops aromas are locked in at a higher temp than that (80C ?)
What if I immersion chilled to 40C, then chucked the lot into a sterilized cube and left over night to get to the right temp, is this a water and hops aroma saving method perhaps?

Thoughts?

Cheers
Martin

PS. I intend on testing this out, I just have to get to bunnings to get a length of copper to make a flying spaghetti monster chiller

 

[GuyQLD]

No chill relies on the high temperatures to pasteurise the cube. What you intend on doing is basically chilling wort to a temperature where bacteria, wild yeast and other sort of nasties are going to have a field day.

You might get away with it sometimes, but it's not worth the risk. This is riskier than just letting it chill in the kettle overnight, at least that starts as a sanitised environment, you're moving it between environments and then letting it sit up to 12 hours to do what it likes?

Either chill it all the way, or no chill it and use any number of the methods people have come up with to try and mimic that late addition. Don't do this unless playing Russian roulette with your beer is something you enjoy doing.

 

[squirt in the turns]

Could work, but what you're basically doing is bringing the wort down to the perfect temperature for bacterial infection and then leaving it for hours before inoculating it with yeast. Many brewers do this successfully (e.g. using a chiller to get to tap water temps, then refrigerating to get to lager fermentation temps before aerating and pitching) but sanitation is extra important.

Assuming you'd be chilling in the kettle, then transferring (via a ball valve) to the cube? Ball valves (and urn taps) get some pretty skanky stuff built up in the bits you can't see and clean easily, and are a known source of infection. They're usually fine if you're moving near boiling wort through them (i.e. on the way to a no-chill cube or chiller) or if the chilled wort passing through them is to be inoculated quickly.

Your proposed method gives any nasties picked up during transfer a good chance to take hold before your chosen yeast is anywhere near the wort. One way you might mitigate this is to run the hot wort to a fermenter (will need to have a wide mouth) and chill it there. Put the chiller in the boil for the last few minutes to sanitise it.

 

[Crusty]

No chill relies on the high temperatures to pasteurise the cube. What you intend on doing is basically chilling wort to a temperature where bacteria, wild yeast and other sort of nasties are going to have a field day.

You might get away with it sometimes, but it's not worth the risk. This is riskier than just letting it chill in the kettle overnight, at least that starts as a sanitised environment, you're moving it between environments and then letting it sit up to 12 hours to do what it likes?

Either chill it all the way, or no chill it and use any number of the methods people have come up with to try and mimic that late addition. Don't do this unless playing Russian roulette with your beer is something you enjoy doing.

Spot on here.
I chilled all my beers for quite a while & ventured into no chill. I tried all sorts of methods to mimmic the chilled versions but to this day, still struggle with consistent results. I've tried cube hopping, dry hopping & all sorts of alternatives but I'm not 100% happy with the results.
I've just tasted a Smurto's Golden Ale back to back. The first was cube hopped & dry hopped, the second was all hopped in the boil adjusted for the same finished IBU. The cube hopped beer according to my perception is not as bitter compared to the second beer. There is definitly a difference in bitterness.
I just forked out the coin for another immersion chiller & going back to the results I favoured in the past. It's just my opinion but I'm just finding no chill is not giving me the expected results I'm looking for compared to chilling the wort the traditional way.

 

[seehuusen]

Thanks for the comments, I didn't perceive the bacteria problem as being a major issue, as I'm extremely careful with sanitation.
The ball-valve issue is new to me, I use gas, and that ball-valve would be 100C for sure for an hour plus, wouldn't that get rid of anything nasty?

With the cube hopping, I do find it lacks some of the bitterness compared to going all into the BK too. I've put my pot into an ice bath, to get the temps down as fast as possible, and was just looking for a different alternative to making the chilling process more cumbersome than it had to be...

I might just look at freezing some ice-cream containers and using a submersible pump in an esky for those last 20C (as suggested in the other thread).

 

[manticle]

Pick one method or the other. Both have advantages and disadvantages - yours seems to have the disadvantages of both with few of the advantages.
Being careful with sanitation includes not leaving 40 degree wort around for a long time. Do you leave chicken on a board in the sun because you are really careful scrubbing the board before and after use?

 

[seehuusen]

haha fair enough, I see your point