Illiteracy In Oz

[kelbygreen]

Yeah thats true but it takes me longer to shorten words down then it does to type the whole thing. I guess that is because you are used to typing it a certain way and to do it different it takes longer to think how to do it lol

 

[argon]

I used to have the responsibility of reading CVs for job applications. As soon as I would come across a spelling mistake... Binned it.

Nothing to do with getting one's message across. It's about pride in your communication and not coming off like a retard.

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah but even with spell check you can get things wrong as most are US or UK spell checks and some things are spelt different in both and some are spelt different here. Maybe that's the reason I applied for 69 jobs and got a call back on 2 lol. Still didn't get any of them 2 jobs. I ended up getting a offer of 3 jobs from 3 previous employees though and they where the only 3 employees that I ever had in NSW so goes to show that my work is a hell of a lot better then my spelling, Every person I have worked for would employ me again in a second if they had work. I have guys in QLD asking me to go back up there to help them but I have a family down here and rather stay here.

I cant talk or type to well but I have pride in my work and I have always found it hard to get work threw a CV. All I have got I rock up and they say when can you start?

 

[Wolfy]

You sound really smart, but can you brew a decent beer?

Occasionally I manage.

 

[bcp]

It's not an issue in Finland because they recognise that it is an issue and have applied resources to address it. When looking at the Unesco stats (lies, damn lies and statistics B) ), you need to understand that different countries apply different definitions to literacy and apply different methodologies to the testing in those samples.

The CIA world factbook lists the following disclaimer on Australia's 99% and Finland's 100%

This entry includes a definition of literacy and Census Bureau percentages for the total population, males, and females. There are no universal definitions and standards of literacy. Unless otherwise specified, all rates are based on the most common definition - the ability to read and write at a specified age. Detailing the standards that individual countries use to assess the ability to read and write is beyond the scope of the Factbook. Information on literacy, while not a perfect measure of educational results, is probably the most easily available and valid for international comparisons. Low levels of literacy, and education in general, can impede the economic development of a country in the current rapidly changing, technology-driven world.

I think that means that they are a bit rubbery!


Australia's own data quotes a rate of non functional literacy at about 45% - to quote from the ABS "Literacy skills are becoming increasingly important in contemporary Australian society. In 2006, just over half of Australians aged 15-74 years had adequate or better prose (54%) and document (53%) literacy skills" (I don't expect this to change much when the latest census data is released)

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lo...0Chapter6102008

Finland have a focused program on addressing reading skills in place for a couple of decades now and according to various studies from the EU, PISA and others, rank very highly in the results. It's not because Finns are necessarily better readers than everyone else, its because they have applied the resources to helping people overcome their problems. In short Finland has adopted a very positive approach to reading, lots of libraries, free books for students, great support for those who struggle with reading. And this is in a very small country that in the 70s and 80s ranked very poorly in literacy outcomes.

In terms of direct comparisons, the Nationmaster website is interesting, and you could just as easily plug in Sweden or Norway to get some perspective
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Austra...nland/Education

Then this is worth reading
http://www.nea.org/home/40991.htm

Both Australia and Finland (and 25 other developed countries) are participating in the PIAAC http://www.oecd.org/document/7/0,3746,en_2...1_1_1_1,00.html so some directly comparable data should be available in a couple of years.

Thanks for that. Interesting I did some post-grad studies VET so was somewhat aware of the Aus situation, but i've mostly focused on third world stuff.

Of course, Australia is systematically undermining our TAFE system, I assume because there are no votes in old policies. The short-sighted inability of the Aus government to see beyond the next election cycle is more than a little frustrating.

 

[petesbrew]

I was in general english all the way through High School, so I can't say anything. Actually I can say something cos this is the internet.
I have trouble spelling vvaaccuumm. It's the one word I can never spell properly. And grammar, I'm bad at that too.
But I can spell bier.

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah I was always told not to spell words how they sound. I am like why have silent letters??? why cant ph be f? why do they need silent letters! I dont get it they tell you to spell it out how it sounds but its not spelt how it sounds! lol

eleFant!
Fone!


Oh got like and lick mixed up a few times! weird when you write I lick you I lick you alot!

 

[bum]

Nothing to do with getting one's message across. It's about pride in your communication and not coming off like a retard.

Sure, in the context of a CV. Beer board? Maybe not as important.

An amusing aside - my wife always leans pretty hard on attention to detail in her CV (she's a picky bitch) anyway, last 2 times she's sent her resume out she's left 'track changes' on. Told you it was amusing, hey?

But I can spell bier.

Well played.

 

[jyo]

I'm very interested to know just how many parents actually read to their children these days. How many parents ask their kids what the hell they did at school during the day? In some of the schools I have worked at, that answer is not many. When I ask students what they did on the weekend I am met with a majority of "Played Playstation, went on Facebook or "Watched T.V."

My mum taught me to read simple words and spell and write my own name before I reached school. That's what we've done with our little girl. My dad (who is almost illiterate) taught me to add and made me a multiplication tables chart. I had to learn the ******* things.

Kids need a strong Literacy and Numeracy basis before they reach kindy. They need to be taught at home to value books, to be literate in handling books and using vocabulary. There needs to be dialogue at home.

We see children in year 2 and 3 (without any diagnosis of dyslexia or global development delay etc) who can barely write their own name or count to 20 on a number line. I'm sorry, but that needs to happen at home as well as in the classroom. I die a little when in a year six or five class I have students who don't know what a narrative (fairytale) is and can't add 80 and 20. I fight a tough battle everyday...

As far as discipline goes, I've been spat on, bitten, kicked, punched, assaulted with sticks and rocks,called EVERY name you can imagine. Suspension just gives those involved a break and the student a bit of a holiday. Expulsion (in the public system) can be a long and drawn-out process... I do actually enjoy my job!

edit- spelled stuff wrong

 

[TidalPete]

I'm very interested to know just how many parents actually read to their children these days. How many parents ask their kids what the hell they did at school during the day? In some of the schools I have worked at, that answer is not many. When I ask students what they did on the weekend I am met with a majority of "Played Playstation, went on Facebook or "Watched T.V."

My mum taught me to read simple words and spell and write my own name before I reached school. That's what we've done with our little girl. My dad (who is almost illiterate) taught me to add and made me a multiplication tables chart. I had to learn the ******* things.

Kids need a strong Literacy and Numeracy basis before they reach kindy. They need to be taught at home to value books, to be literate in handling books and using vocabulary. There needs to be dialogue at home.

We see children in year 2 and 3 (without any diagnosis of dyslexia or global development delay etc) who can barely write their own name or count to 20 on a number line. I'm sorry, but that needs to happen at home as well as in the classroom. I die a little when in a year six or five class I have students who don't know what a narrative (fairytale) is and can't add 80 and 20. I fight a tough battle everyday...

As far as discipline goes, I've been spat on, bitten, kicked, punched, assaulted with sticks and rocks,called EVERY name you can imagine. Suspension just gives those involved a break and the student a bit of a holiday. Expulsion (in the public system) can be a long and drawn-out process... I do actually enjoy my job!

edit- spelled stuff wrong

Best response so far jyo. I was lucky enough to have family that taught me the basics well before I started school & I like to think I did the same with my three boys, the one with children doing this as well & following family tradition in encouraging them to join a library at as early an age as possible.

Not trying to be 'Holier than Thou' but how many parents can be bothered with the hassle of doing this these days? I count myself fortunate to still be relatively literate despite the odd mistake in my declining years which I put down to too many beers consumed. h34r:
This will be my last post on this thread.

TP

 

[TidalPete]

But not perhaps my last post on this thread after all.

I note that one of the moderators in his infinite wisdom has moved this thread away from 'All Latest Threads' on the top right-hand side of the main page & struggle to find a reason why?

Interested in knowing the moderator's name & his reason for doing this? <_< Will we ever know? I doubt it very much, but then, life is full of suprises.

TP

 

[bum]

Probably because it was moved to the correct forum.

 

[Bizier]

[...]
Compare that to somewhere like Finland, where there is no literacy problem to speak of.

Finnish is quite different to English, you learn it verbally, and because it is phonetic, it is easy to pick up the written component as an extension.

But their education system is also markedly different to ours.

The thing that ***** me is that I find the volume of bad spelling and grammar I encounter negatively affects my own, and makes me doubt things I learned in primary school.

 

[TidalPete]

Probably because it was moved to the correct forum.

And what forum is that bum?

This thread started in 'the Pub' --- General Chit-Chat and Brew related questions --- & there it should remain unless there is something vulgar or offensive about it which so far there is not.

I'll always be one of your biggest fans bum. Your name says it all! :lol:

TP

 

[newguy]

The situation is much the same in Canada. I have 11 and 9 year old daughters, presently finishing up grades 5 and 3 respectively. The education system's focus has morphed from demanding a minimum level of competence (both in student achievement and in teacher performance) to something that demands that all students be recognised as "special" and treated as such. To compensate, what the schools omit, I provide.

Just this past week there was a front page newspaper story (which ran for 3 days in various forms) regarding a high school teacher who had been suspended for assigning zeroes to students who didn't hand in assignments. This was contrary to the school division's "no zero" policy....a zero may discourage the poor lazy dears, you see. Can't have that.

Off topic slightly, but related: watch the movie "Idiocracy." Fiction, but eerily prophetic.

 

[Wolfy]

And what forum is that bum?

This thread started in 'the Pub' --- General Chit-Chat and Brew related questions --- & there it should remain unless there is something vulgar or offensive about it which so far there is not.

I'll always be one of your biggest fans bum. Your name says it all! :lol:

TP

It's now in Off Topic : Anything Non Beer related put it in here.

Unless you can explain how a thread about 'Illiteracy In Oz' is a 'Brew related question(s)' it's easy to see why it belongs in 'Anything Non Beer related'.

 

[pk.sax]

I don't think things have changed drastically. I suffer from mildly dyslexic typing, unless I slow down, its all rather messy, I'd skip letters, add spaces in the wrong places, put letters in the wrong order.

But then, I learn to write by hand. I still make no spelling mistakes when writing by hand. When typing, I have to go back and check it. When I was in sort of middle school I could count the number of kids in the class that gaf about language skills with half the fingers on one hand. Even fewer that showed any evidence of touching a book other than their textbooks. I honestly think it is inherited. My parents encouraged it, gave me a prod in the right direction and off you go. I think partly through year 6 or something I stopped going to my local library and switched to the state library because the local didn't have anything left I was interested in. These days... well, there are way too many distractions. I still manage to read a few every month, would I if I had grown up speaking/writing txting language?!

Good communication skills come from absorbing what you read/hear and applying that into your own efforts. That is almost like saying, if you can learn IM language, you can learn English, or anything for that matter. As long as you can express effectively all that you have to say and respond to all that is asked of you. If you read Citymorgue's fat thumbed posts, you can tell that he applies sentence construction very well and the garbled spellings hardly distract from the effectiveness of what he is saying.

I think what is more annoying are the ones that have no clue how to put together a sentence and throw together a few words missing 'joining' words that make it all make sense. In essence, the opposite of evolving a language into a clearer, more structured form of communication. Missing the 'proper' words, they end up putting together made up words to do the same job. Again, it confuses others and doesn't portray any intelligence but infact, there is an entire new dialect being developed! Alas, in today's connected world, there are barely any geographical barriers that encourage the growth of distinct variations to language.

Which leads us back to threads like this. Whinging about the language of those that are meantally in caves of their own. There.

Thank you for reading, this was fun and took a while.

 

[bum]

I'll always be one of your biggest fans bum. Your name says it all! :lol:

Warms the very cockles of me 'eart, that does. I believe SOCs are our nation's must undervalued resource so recognition from you is tremendous validation.

Wrong forum. You admit this thread made in a moment of idle trolling. You're lucky it wasn't deleted entirely.

Also, there are clearly stated rules about questioning a mod's decision in this manner - perhaps you would like to read them?

[EDIT: such a thread in which to make a typo!]

 

[white.grant]

The short-sighted inability of the Aus government to see beyond the next election cycle is more than a little frustrating.

That is a very large part of the problem.

 

[Barley Belly]

Illiteracy In Oz, ever noticed this trend?

Do you mean the mythical land of Oz (as in The Wizard Of Oz). Or, do you mean Australia?