Illiteracy In Oz

[Kingbrownbrewing]

So thats why you offered me a cider.................................................aint gunna happen big fella

















































































well not after one cider

you know I would ply you with much more alcohol to take advantage of you Brad.....

 

[TidalPete]

I thought you weren't going Pete....

Jeez your missus is going to be crook at you, 3 boozey days in a week.

Unless yesterday counted as last week....

hoo nose dann? :lol:
Getting my two-bob's worth out of this thread mate.

TP

 

[bradsbrew]

I trained as a primary school teacher in the 80s. The fact is most primary teachers are silly girls who have no interest in literacy, and really hate maths. They go into teaching because the mark required is low and they want to work with children.

I work in vocational education, don't get me started. The primary and secondary education sector must be restrained within their own rights to allow some of the "positive results". The LLN of some people who have passed their senior certificate is terrible.

 

[kevo]

You're absolutely right, what did I read the other day...

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Apparently that was written around 400BC.

The more things change, the more they were the same - the il/semi-literate just have a louder voice now than ever before.

FFS - this is a brewing forum.

Kev

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I can't respond to this thread, because I can't read what it's about (or hang on, am I supposed to write 'its' - just to keep in line).

I have a kid in Grade 2 and one in Grade 1. My sister is 19, so the gap between us is pretty big, and I saw how bad it degraded between when I went to school and she did, and now I see it more.

No rote learning of times tables since sometime in the 90s - epic fail. She can't figure out 7x8 without a calculator.

With my kids - they spend half a day per week actually doing work. The rest of the time, they stuff around ("free play" seems to be a constant theme) and the teachers send homework that takes about an hour a night (and I have smart kids and a stay at home mum - I don't know how parents of average or slightly dull kids cope or those parents who both work).

My grade 2 girl, who is very sharp (too sharp, unfortunately - but that's another dad-daughter story) couldn't spell basic words to save herself (a very good writer, but you have to interpret the dodgy spelling). By her age, I knew at least up to 7 times tables, and was reading basic novels (thank you Enid Blyton). We did NO homework until Grade 6 and by Grade 8, it was still an hour a night - exactly what my Year 1 and 2 girls both do.

We don't live in an area where the socioeconomic issues of some parents reflect in the way their kids behave in class. Teachers don't seem to spend much time disciplining kids (whereas they did, in the rough area on the Sunny Coast where I grew up), so I'm trying to figure out how they earn more than I do, with 12 week's extra vacation per year.

/rant.

Goomba

 

[QldKev]

lolz m8; nuthin wrong wid my edumacation, I wend to tha best skoolz. c u l8tr

 

[Wolfy]

The three R's --- Reading, Writing & Arithmatic are just the basic building blocks of education. Too much expect? Too lazy to use a spell-checker? You'll let me Know I'm sure.

Bullshit, maybe in the days before home brewing was legal, but not anymore.
I can't spell and I do not know my times tables, so by your standards I'd be one of the 'uneducated'. My chronic short-sightedness (I can't read even the biggest letter on the chart at the optometrist) was not diagnosed until part-way through my schooling, so by that stage I had missed learning many of the 'basics'.

However, I have multiple university degrees, numerous industry certifications (recognized world-wide), am a qualified secondary maths and physics teacher and adult educator well used to public-speaking. I also touch-type at an insane speed and know how to use a spell checker (including the one built into my web browser), calculator, spreadsheets, databases and all other relevant tools that I need to do most any work, writing or arithmetic that I feel like. Those skills - while heavily based on technology - are more important now, and in the future, than knowing when 'i comes before e' or what 7x8 is off the top of my head. Not knowing the "basic building blocks of education" does not hinder my ability to communicate online or in person and has very little negative impact on my life, however it does not mean that I have display that 'lack of education' with misspellings or typing in text-speak.

 

[bradsbrew]

Teachers don't seem to spend much time disciplining kids (whereas they did, in the rough area on the Sunny Coast where I grew up), so I'm trying to figure out how they earn more than I do, with 12 week's extra vacation per year.

/rant.

Goomba

It's probably more that they are not allowed to discipline, much the same as parents are not allowed to be parents.

 

[InCider]

Pet hates in spelling and pronunciation:

arks, axe instead of ask
ay?, aye? instead of eh?
negoshiate for negotiate
asterix for asterisk
etsetra for etcetera
Queenslander for drivers who don't indicate

 

[InCider]

It's probably more that they are not allowed to discipline, much the same as parents are not allowed to be parents.

You slipped through.

 

[JDW81]

I'm at medical school with people who can't even formulate a coherent sentence (on paper or verbally). I'm not pretending my grasp of grammar (or the lexicon for that matter) is perfect, but geez. How these people got through the entrance exam is beyond me.

You should hear Mrs JD crack on about the poor use of language. Bloody subeditors/proofreaders, they think they're experts.

JD

P.S. Happy to have all my errors (both grammatical or otherwise) pointed out.

 

[bradsbrew]

You slipped through.

Check out the latest FB pic of the family going down the viking flume at sea world. was going to send it to parent of the year award :lol:

 

[Clutch]

I failed English in high school.I went on to sub-edit for two national magazines, and I sometimes write for the hell of it.I also married my English teacher's daughter, who is now an English teacher and published author herself.I have ADD, and flog the pair of them at Scrabble.
Ooh look, something shiny.

 

[Maheel]

check this winner :lol:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/home-beer-/2709...=item3f1855b3d3

"home beer"

it is from a pub it comes with 2 sems wot hold 2 taps each does not come with tap and comes with gas gagers all as you will need is a chiller and a keg and mybe some air line and your away tex me if you would like pic happy biding

 

[InCider]

Check out the latest FB pic of the family going down the viking flume at sea world. was going to send it to parent of the year award :lol:

Baa Bra told me - bloody brilliant.. shh! I think I can hear DOCs knocking at your/you're/yore door :lol:

 

[Clutch]

 

[white.grant]

Are you sure that Finland doesn't have functional illiteracy issues? I mean, by UNESCO standards Australia & Finland are on 99%, yet I agree with you that the issue is deeper in Australia. What's your evidence that it isn't an issue at all in Finland, comparing apples to apples in terms of definitions? Just interested.

It's not an issue in Finland because they recognise that it is an issue and have applied resources to address it. When looking at the Unesco stats (lies, damn lies and statistics B) ), you need to understand that different countries apply different definitions to literacy and apply different methodologies to the testing in those samples.

The CIA world factbook lists the following disclaimer on Australia's 99% and Finland's 100%

This entry includes a definition of literacy and Census Bureau percentages for the total population, males, and females. There are no universal definitions and standards of literacy. Unless otherwise specified, all rates are based on the most common definition - the ability to read and write at a specified age. Detailing the standards that individual countries use to assess the ability to read and write is beyond the scope of the Factbook. Information on literacy, while not a perfect measure of educational results, is probably the most easily available and valid for international comparisons. Low levels of literacy, and education in general, can impede the economic development of a country in the current rapidly changing, technology-driven world.

I think that means that they are a bit rubbery!


Australia's own data quotes a rate of non functional literacy at about 45% - to quote from the ABS "Literacy skills are becoming increasingly important in contemporary Australian society. In 2006, just over half of Australians aged 15-74 years had adequate or better prose (54%) and document (53%) literacy skills" (I don't expect this to change much when the latest census data is released)

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lo...0Chapter6102008

Finland have a focused program on addressing reading skills in place for a couple of decades now and according to various studies from the EU, PISA and others, rank very highly in the results. It's not because Finns are necessarily better readers than everyone else, its because they have applied the resources to helping people overcome their problems. In short Finland has adopted a very positive approach to reading, lots of libraries, free books for students, great support for those who struggle with reading. And this is in a very small country that in the 70s and 80s ranked very poorly in literacy outcomes.

In terms of direct comparisons, the Nationmaster website is interesting, and you could just as easily plug in Sweden or Norway to get some perspective
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Austra...nland/Education

Then this is worth reading
http://www.nea.org/home/40991.htm

Both Australia and Finland (and 25 other developed countries) are participating in the PIAAC http://www.oecd.org/document/7/0,3746,en_2...1_1_1_1,00.html so some directly comparable data should be available in a couple of years.

 

[spudfarmerboy]

Bullshit, maybe in the days before home brewing was legal, but not anymore.
I can't spell and I do not know my times tables, so by your standards I'd be one of the 'uneducated'. My chronic short-sightedness (I can't read even the biggest letter on the chart at the optometrist) was not diagnosed until part-way through my schooling, so by that stage I had missed learning many of the 'basics'.

However, I have multiple university degrees, numerous industry certifications (recognized world-wide), am a qualified secondary maths and physics teacher and adult educator well used to public-speaking. I also touch-type at an insane speed and know how to use a spell checker (including the one built into my web browser), calculator, spreadsheets, databases and all other relevant tools that I need to do most any work, writing or arithmetic that I feel like. Those skills - while heavily based on technology - are more important now, and in the future, than knowing when 'i comes before e' or what 7x8 is off the top of my head. Not knowing the "basic building blocks of education" does not hinder my ability to communicate online or in person and has very little negative impact on my life, however it does not mean that I have display that 'lack of education' with misspellings or typing in text-speak.

You sound really smart, but can you brew a decent beer?

 

[kelbygreen]

I thought I was bad till this guy from the UK started talking to me I think he was being a smart ass but I couldn't tell.

It was along the lines of this!

o u tik u r s tuf u r a pus wif a stp hd cz u r a mth fkr dmb fuk.

I asked him to repeat what he just told me and it was something like this.

cnt u undrstd eng u stp fuk wy dnt u fuk off ten cz u r gy

and thats no word of a lie well it wasnt word for word but every word was abbreviated into like 3 letters or less lol

 

[Rob S]

Language changes over time. It's just changing quicker now than ever before. If the idea of communication is to get your meaning across, then spelling & grammar becomes less important.