If You Could Start Again

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rh1an5

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so reading the forums and checking out a lot fo teh rigs, its fair to say most area work in progress or have been stream lined over thier life to create better more reliable set-ups.

my question then is , and this is from teh view point of someone wanting to get into ag, if you could start over, what parts would you have bought. keep in mind some cost restraints, ie. i cant afford a morebeer b what ever.

more interested i suppose in say what mash tun you would have bought(ie that 10 buck esky was shit, i should have got....), what kettle you would have bought, etc would you have spent the few extra bucks initially on a temp dial like teh mash master ones?

i would like this process i guess to be about setting up something good teh 1st time, instead of half assed and replacing things every brew.
 
Id say the best thing you can do is get in contact with other brewers in your area(fill out you location in your profile) and pick their brains, as they would be able to point you to the stores local to you to get the parts you want to get; and find out what didnt work for them
 
It's really a 'How long is a piece of string' type question, rhian. Whether you keep changing things and improving things is going to depend a lot on you i.e whether you are a tinkerer or someone who wants to keep improving things or whether you can be happy with something that just works, even if you know it could be better.

But Linz's advice is good, get in touch with yopur locals mate, see if you can line up a brewday. see whats involved first hand and what's available in your area. You'll never regret it
 
yeah i defiantly see what you mean, i suppose ,maybe better way to phrase it would be items you wish you had bought when you started?

i have a tendancy liek most young men i suppose to rush into things, especially when they are shiny, lol
 
Go to a couple of different brewdays if you can, it's always easier to see what you need first hand and more importantly why you need it...have a good old chat to the host....talking about the brewery while you're standing in front of it and can see it in action is invaluable, will usually teach you as much in 3 hours as weeks on the internet will, and I haven't met a brewer yet that doesn't like to yarn about their brewery. It'll stick in your mind more as well, because you'll have the sights and sounds, and the smells and tastes as well. Eat some grain. Drink some wort. taste the first runnings and the lasts. Eat some of the spent grain. Ask every question you can remember.
I spend a lot of time talking to people about their home breweries, and I've seen quite a few (mine included) that cost considerably more than necessary, due to haste & being unable to help ourselves when it comes to clever ideas - complete with little box of discarded 'ideas/$$$$' Every single one of those dollars in the box is 2 litres of beer. And that's just sad. Shiny things look so much better when you know exactly why you got them and that's exactly what they do. Trust me.
Put simply, don't try to reinvent the wheel - go have a look at someone else's wheel. Unless making things & solving problems gives you as much pleasure as drinking beer does, for your own sake don't try to make your brewery too much on the cheap. Making sensible purchases without wasting money is one thing - trying to make a false bottom out of an egg cup is another. :D

Without trying to influence your decision's too much, because clearly I sell all this stuff but I'm not trying to get a sale here, I would personally recommend a very simple set up to begin with.

Step number one would be to decide what volume you want to make. Take the finished volume of beer, and double it. That's roughly the size of kettle you want. There are certain compromises you must make here because of what's available size wise, but a 50 litre vessel is a very good size for a standard batch, that gives you enough extra room for a good boil. If you want to make double batches (45-50 litres), you want a minimum 70 litre kettle. Get a decent one if you can, get a lesser one if you can't. Get a ball valve outlet put into it, and a pickup tube. The outlet will mean you don't try and do stupid things like carry/tip 30 litres of hot whatever, as will the pickup tube.
A mashtun. You're easiest option is an esky, the easiest option of all of these is the Willow 55 litre. It has a built in bulkhead outlet that means you can use it as a mashtun without making any modifications at all - you can put the original bulkhead back in and still use it for BBQ's..........if you catch them on sale at some hardware stores they are usually in a 3 pack, with a couple of bonus little esky's for the same price you pay for the 55 litre Willow esky with little wheels on it. You don't need wheels on your mashtun, and the free little sixpack esky in the 3 pack is damned useful to take to the homebrew shop with an icepack in it if you are buying yeast on a hot day.....If not the willow, then something around the 30 litre mark that doesn't cost so much that the idea of cutting a hole in it gives you the willys will do.
For your mashtun you can use hose braid as a 'false bottom' make a copper manifold or you can purchase a false bottom. Once again, this is your opportunity to get creative if you want to, but options are available if you don't. You need a tap from the esky, something with some control is required as you need to be able to control your runoff. Not being able to control it will only lead to problems.

HLT. You can please yourself if you bother with an HLT, I use my kettle as an HLT for 'doughing in'and 'sparging' into another vessel (or 'grant') then move that liquor back up into the kettle when the sparge is complete. An HLT does make it more convenient, but it adds more cost as well, and takes up more room and quite often is the 'bringer of electricity' into the equation and as such increasing the complication of the whole thing. If room or funds are limited, then I would first recommend dispensing with the HLT as it's nice to have one but it's not the end of the world if you don't.

As far as frame goes, it depends on if you know anyone with a mig welder who likes beer. If you do, well good ........if not, you'd be suprised what you can get when you mention beer discreetly at some smaller workshops....the smaller the better & usually best if phrased something like "What sort of price would I be looking at to have my brewery frame made up so I can make some beer? " and usually best said to someone who looks like they actually do the work, and out of the earshot of management and receptionists etc....

Best of luck. Start with the brewday. You'll come away with more ideas than you can shake a stick at. :)

Note: You'll notice I haven't mentioned pumps and heat exchangers and gadgets and all that carry on - that's because those are the things I think you need to see in action to appreciate why you might want one.......I personally think it's important to know how this process works or can work with gravity alone and no fancy toys, because that's the simplest way of doing it all, and puts you in touch with the brewing without distracting you with gadgetry...like I said, shiney things are so much better when you know why you have them.
 
:blink:..... Jeebus Dom, you coulda knocked out a coupla falsies in the time it took to type that up if you type like me
 
+1 for getting to a brewday.

You learn and you taste, you taste and you learn. They're great fun.

grant
 
:blink:..... Jeebus Dom, you coulda knocked out a coupla falsies in the time it took to type that up if you type like me


Nah.......I type pretty fast :D The falsies take ages to make......that perforated edge on each end is a #@$#$@ to weld, even down at 5 amps.....like trying to weld a bunch of holes together....
 
Just like to add my two cents. I think 90% of people will say that you should get something to do 45-50 litre batches in because you'll want to some day. That may be fine for some but I am still quite happy with my 20 litre brews. Mainly due to the fact that I don't drink that much, 20 litres lasts quite a while for me. If I stuff a brew up I am not tipping heaps down the drain. My system involves manual lifting and I couldn't lift much more that I already do. And lastly, I have so many project brews, that the quicker I get through one the quicker I can brew another.
Not knocking big rigs by any means, just not for me.
Cheers
Scott.
 
Yeah my standard batch size at the moment is still 12 - 15 litres. Means I brew more often so I learn more, and I get to try more different styles without drinking myself into oblivion ;)

Re the original post - Having made my own false bottom out of fine mesh, I think I would go with a hose braid for my next one, as I have some problems with channeling around the edges of the false bottom with my setup at the moment. I agree that a good size kettle is a must. 50L would be nice, and that's the next thing I'm getting - you need it to hold a fair bit more than your final batch size, and allow for boil over as well.

Get yourself a decent burner and regulator too. I'm going to upgrade my reg soon too as it still takes 15-20 minutes to get to a boil with a standard BBQ reg.
 
To be perfectly honest -

If my brewery burned to the ground tomorrow and I was replacing it all; there is a pretty good chance that I would opt for a BIAB set-up.

70odd litre pot, 4 ring burner (or a couple of 2400W immersions), a big polyester bag, a skyhook and some NC cubes (although my plate chiller would probably survive the fire and might still get a run...) Done.

I love my HERMS and the pumps and temp controllers etc etc.. but a lot of that is to do with the time and effort I have put into the system. If it was all gone and I had to start again, it would be a different story.

I firmly believe that my beer would be just as good both now and into the future, if I was on a BiaB rig. And life would be a lot simpler, brewdays would be a lot shorter and brewing would have cost me a lot less to get into.

Thirsty
 
If it's a kinda wish list.

1./ Peristaltic pump (forget the march pump)
2./ Temp control on the HLT (I use a mashmate, coz I'm electric, brilliant bit of gear)
3./ Buy a proper stainless pot for the Kettle, heating water is easy and you can mash in damn near anything but to get a nice evap rate without having to watch the boil like a hak I think a proper pot would be the nicer way to go.
4./ One of the italian spiral burners. Haven't seen one in action yet, but they're meant to be quieter and a bit better on gas than the NASA I currently use.
5./ Brew sculpture. Get somekind of stand to hold it all, VW wheels will do at a pinch (we've got photo's to prove it) but pretty much anything you can do to make brewing simple is good.
My brewday takes a good 6hrs or more but I'm never fully invested in it, except for the boil.
6./ Grainmill. I waited and waited and agonised over the decision and now I have a grainmill that's still not mounted up yet. Buy a mill, use it, even if it's an el-cheapo Barley crusher, or monster mill. Crushing your own grain is a good thing, especially if your supplier is a good 1hr roundtrip away.

20L batches are underrated in my opinion. Most people I know doing +45L batches have a lot of friends over or they've got a lot of taps to keep pouring. Variety is the spice of life.
 
My tip would be: always go for stainless steel if it is an option, rather than brass and copper. I inspected my brass plumbing after only a handful of brews and it was already covered with discouloured, metallic-smelling gunk. Brass fittings also seem to have a rough texture which is impossible to keep clean. Out they went, now it's much easier to keep everything spotless.
 
Why did I buy the 70l Robinox and not the 100l :rolleyes:
 
I believe that if you know how to make good beer, you can make it in a plastic bucket and not much more. (I cannot personally demonstrate this point, but...)

Start as simple as you possibly can. Do not buy anything until you absolutely know you want/need it. In this way, you will spend more time thinking about what it is you need rather than working off someone else's wish-list. BiaB is a great way to start because you can do so with a kettle - be it a good one or not - and not much else. You will continue to use the kettle regardless of what happens (or you stop altogether). If you decide that you want to continue with a seriously simple system, you have lost nothing. If you decide that you want the most complicated home brewery known to man, you have still lost nothing.

I think the real trick is to know where you can save money. Not everything has to be the very best and most expensive, but some things benefit if they are. Working out which bits fall into which category can be part of the fun.

And get thee to a brew day.
 
70 litre kettle for comfortable double batches.
 
A couple of great points in this thread, particularly Domonsura who mentioned that for every dollar spent on an idea that now sits in the bottom drawer, a potential litre of beer never saw the light of day. It certainly gets me thinking about some of my hare-brained schemes...although none of them have really cost me much I guess...
 
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