Ideal Conditioning Temperature

[lonte]

Up until now, I have thought bottled beers that I have intended to cellar for some years (mostly higher alcohol - RIS, BW, etc.) need to be kept at somewhere near fermentation temps (say 18*C) so that the yeast can continue working and evolve the beer over it's life. So, I have kept them in a cupboard at a "fairly consistent" room temperature (well, avoiding too many great swings in temp anyway).

Now that I avoid bottling like the plague and I have finally got to a point where I have a spare fridge that will take 3 corny kegs, and a spare temp controller, I had planned to cellar these big beers in the keg at a consistent 12-13*C.

That was until today listening to Dr Charles Banforth on Brew Strong who argues that temperature is one of the greatest influences on beer shelf life and that beer is best kept as cold as possible without freezing to extend it's life. Now that's logical and hard to argue against, but here's my question:

If I store a big beer, say a RIS, in the keg in a fridge at say 4*C will that in fact inhibit the processes that age the beer and, while it may extend the life, result in a beer that lacks the mellowing and conditioned characteristics that might be expected?

 

[bullfrog]

[size=-1]Not that this is conclusive, or anything, nor do I have any scientific backing to it, but I've experienced bottled brews developing flavours in fridge temperatures before. On more than one occasion, I've bottled a batch, allowed to carbonate for a few weeks and then fridged the whole lot. On these occasions, the flavours still seemed to mature in the same way that I would have expected them to at ~18-20 degrees.

That may not be too much help but that's just my experiences.[/size]

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I figure the thing that makes beer stale is not entirely different to that which makes most foodstuffs stale - give or take a large margin of error. In that vein, the following picture might be of interest.

Thermometer

Certainly, I would expect most reactions that occur in your finished beer to happen slower at lower temps.

Which all kinda agrees with the original assertion of near, but not, freezing. I think that there has to be a cost-benefit regime in place else we would all have monster cool rooms annexed to our breweries...

 

[zebba]

I think that there has to be a cost-benefit regime in place else we would all have monster cool rooms annexed to our breweries...

I've started digging the dirt out from under my houses slab to build my own cellar. If I just leave 1 or 2 feet of dirt around the edge of the slab so it doesn't fall in, I don't forsee any problems.

Maybe flooding - I'll just keep a bucket handy.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I've started digging the dirt out from under my houses slab to build my own cellar. If I just leave 1 or 2 feet of dirt around the edge of the slab so it doesn't fall in, I don't forsee any problems.

Maybe flooding - I'll just keep a bucket handy.

That's sure to work. You might forfeit your bond on a rented house, though.

 

[BjornJ]

I;ve been thinking the same thing.
Read just the other day an article explaining the benefits of lagering, below a temperature the yeast can ferment.
Appearantly you first let them bottle carbonate for a couple of weeks, then lager them by putting them in the fridge. The Lagering then happens by hop flavors smooting out, particles fall out and some low-level chemical reactions or something similar.
I know that was a very shoddy explanation, and that is simply because I don't know better

The point seemed to be that lagering is not done by the yeast so the yeast does not need to be active.
The lagering effect come from other compounds in the beer.

After reading that I am thinking that maybe I should start putting bottled lager bottles in the fridge with the cube while cold crashing?

thanks
Bjorn

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

As I interpret their explanation, Duvel lager their ales. And, I would argue, to good effect.

 

[lonte]

The point seemed to be that lagering is not done by the yeast so the yeast does not need to be active.
The lagering effect come from other compounds in the beer.

Others think this too: again on another Brew Strong show on laagering, John Palmer makes the point several times that (paraphrased) "laagering at near-freezing temps has nothing to do with yeast and everything to do with clarifying beer by dropping out suspended matter".

If conditioning is not a yeast-driven process it is either clarifying (like laagering) and so assisted by low temps, or it's chemical, in which case reactions slow down with decreases in temperature.

In the past I have drawn a distinction between "conditioning" ("warm" temps) and Laagering ("cold" temps) but wonder if that's just plain wrong.

 

[BjornJ]

As I interpret their explanation, Duvel lager their ales. And, I would argue, to good effect.

ThirstyBoy told me to lookup Cream Ales :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cream_ale

While cream ales are top-fermented ales, they typically undergo an extended period of cold-conditioning or lagering after primary fermentation is complete. This reduces fruity esters and gives the beer a cleaner flavor.

So both Cream Ales and Altbier are ale types that taste smoother, more lager-like after being cold condtioned or lagered at temperatures too low for the Ale yeast to do anything. Not that I have tried either of these types, but thinking I should start cold condition my beer, all right.

 

[lonte]

I forwarded the same question to Jamil Z for his take on Dr. Bamforth's comments and here's his $0.02. I have assumed his comments mean the oxidation processes accelerate at higher temp, not the settling of particulate which I always understood was faster at low temp.

It isn't really a lot of yeast activity that results in the changes.
Mostly it is oxidation and settling of very fine particulate matter.
Regardless, it happens faster the warmer the beer. There is some
evidence to suggest that it is actually small shifts in temp, up/down
that accelerate the process. (Perhaps it allows more O2 into the
vessel. Applies mostly to oak barrels I think.)

However, I think there is a limit to how warm you want to go. You will
get more yeast death flavors, etc if you go warmer. And possibly the
compounds created through the oxidation and other reactions will not
be exactly the same at different temps.

Personally, I prefer to go the lower temp route. I don't want my beers
going from young to bad in the course of 6 months. If you're drinking
one a day, maybe. I like a slower process and maybe I drink one every
couple months.

 

[Jamieman]

I have just started fermenting in a fridge myself to obtain a steady 18-19 deg.
I read the wiki's on bulk priming & checked out the calcs. All seems pretty self explanatory.

I was wanting to try cooling my current (Morgans Blue Mtn) brew for a couple of days down to 2 or 3 deg, then racking to a secondary, bulk priming, putting back in the fridge at 2-3 deg again for a couple more days, then bottling and storing at room temp to carb up and back in the fridge.

My only concern is i don't have any co2 to purge the secondary with prior to racking and as it will be below fermentation temp, none will be produced.

I am new to conditioning at lower temps.
Am i leaving myself open for infection for little gain?

 

[Jamieman]

Just found the answer to my concerns.
Cool the primary to settle after FG reached.
Forget about bulk priming.
Prime bottles as per normal.
Carb for a week.

Gotta get a keg setup.