How Long Can March Pump Hose Be?

[Brewmeister70]

G'day fellow zymurgists,

I got a March pump (the most common model) and wanted to put that indestructible-looking 1/2" I.D. silicon hose on it but would like to space things out a bit instead of having the hot water kettle, mash tun and boiler all in heap.

This weekend, I saw a setup with simular diametre hosing recirculating the mash liquor very slowly even though the hose length was very short and the ball valve was fully openned... This was a worry and I have no idea why the flow was so slow but realise that the longer the hose, the more the resistance will be.

What's the longest length of hosing anyone has tried and still been able to lift the liquor/wort over the edge of the mash tun without air bubbles forming?

It would be a great help to know this before forking over the spendoolies for unrealistic ammounts of rubber.

Cheers

 

[Zizzle]

How slow? Are you sure the pump was primed properly?

While I don't have an answer to your question, a slow recirc may not be such a bad thing in some setups. If you pump too fast then the grain bed can be "sucked" onto the bottom of your tun and stop the flow.

Ideally you'd want to control the flow with via a valve on the output of the pump, not be inherent in the system of course.

How spaced out are you planning on having your system?

I've got a good couple of meters of silicon hose on the brewbot with also a flow switch and a 3/8" three-way ball valve and it flows reasonably well.

 

[tangent]

it's usually more to do with height than hose length
and yeah priming so it's not aerating the buggery out of it in the housing is a concern of mine. i think i need a proper bracket set-up.

 

[Brewmeister70]

How slow? Are you sure the pump was primed properly?

While I don't have an answer to your question, a slow recirc may not be such a bad thing in some setups. If you pump too fast then the grain bed can be "sucked" onto the bottom of your tun and stop the flow.

Ideally you'd want to control the flow with via a valve on the output of the pump, not be inherent in the system of course.

How spaced out are you planning on having your system?

I've got a good couple of meters of silicon hose on the brewbot with also a flow switch and a 3/8" three-way ball valve and it flows reasonably well.

For what he was doing --recirculating the mash liquor-- it was running OK, from bottom back to the top of the grain bed in a full 80L keg. I guess this is a fairly big job for a pump that small because the top of the mash came to almost the top! (They are planning to dilute it).

Your brewbot setup is kind of simular to what the guy on the weekend has, minus the awesome 12V bits. I ordered 7m of the hose you have and plan to use the longest length at 2.5m for running the cool wort into my fermenters. The ball valves are all full-bore but I notice the hose barb fittings cut this down considerably whether I/anyone likes it or not.

Do you get any air pockets in the flow within the hose on your system?

Thanks again for your in put.

 

[Brewmeister70]

it's usually more to do with height than hose length
and yeah priming so it's not aerating the buggery out of it in the housing is a concern of mine. i think i need a proper bracket set-up.

The highest it will have to go is into the fermenters (also on the ground).

Why is your's aerating in the housing and how can you tell it's doing it? Must be frustrating for you.

I've got 3 steps leading into the garage, so I thought by spacing things out, I could place the pump at the bottom to prime it and keep the rest of the brew gear in the garage... (don't want to mount anything).

 

[enoch]

Why is your's aerating in the housing and how can you tell it's doing it? Must be frustrating for you.

They can be quite frustrating to prime at times. You can generally hear it if it isn't primed properly and is cavitating.
The tricky one is when there is an airlock (bubble) somewhere on the "suction" side that is preventing an effective siphon to the pump inlet, the pump may well be flooded but just can't pull it through on it's own. I tend to take the hose off the pump outlet and let gravity + pump spew a bit out if I am having problems.

 

[domonsura]

The March pump has a 2.7 metre head capacity stated in the specs, I think that if you have it primed properly, it should do it fine. The head will depend on the hose thickness (ID) and the ID of the fittings you use coming off (and on) the pump as well.
I usually either prime my pump with water at garden hose pressure (because of the way mine's set up, inline) at the beginning of the brew and use the outlet ball valve being closed to prevent the pump draining out when it's disconnected from anything. If I have priming problems during a brew, I just let the outlet end down until it flows free with gravity, close the ball valve, reconnect, open the ball-valve and off she goes......
They're a great little pump that's for sure.

 

[Zizzle]

I usually have no problems with the pump priming on the brewbot. The plumbing is pretty straight forward.

But I do have a flow switch just after the pump so when the software detects that there is no flow while the pump is running it shuts it down. It will try again after a short delay. It usually only takes one or two retries for the pump to be happy. The vibration of the pump is enough to dislodge any air pockets.

 

[Sammus]

I've also a few meters of said silicone hosing and get a pretty decent flow rate from the floor up into the outlet of a keg thats about 1m off the ground - probably pumps are 15-20L per minute. I've also had blocked ports before and had the pump running with nothing going through it for 10 minutes before I noticed it and shes still running strong...

 

[bigholty]

Would the March pump commonly in use (809 model isn't it?) be suited to a bigger set-up, say 200L vessels? Does anyone have experience of this? I'm thinking of going this way, and wondering if this pump will be big enough. Going off the specs, I guess it would take 10 mins to pump 160L of wort, does that sound about right? I might have to give the chap from Process Pumps a ring and get a price on a bigger unit. Also, is it okay to control the flow rate by just throttling a valve on the pump outlet?

 

[Sammus]

Would the March pump commonly in use (809 model isn't it?) be suited to a bigger set-up, say 200L vessels? Does anyone have experience of this? I'm thinking of going this way, and wondering if this pump will be big enough. Going off the specs, I guess it would take 10 mins to pump 160L of wort, does that sound about right? I might have to give the chap from Process Pumps a ring and get a price on a bigger unit. Also, is it okay to control the flow rate by just throttling a valve on the pump outlet?

I reckon itd be sweet - and yeah thats the best way to control them I believe. My only issue with the pump is priming, if you could get something suitable (handle temps, occasional bit of grain or hop flower, decent speed) thats self priming i reckon itd be the bomb - I couldnt find anything (reasonable priced anyway). If you dont prime it properly it has a significant affect (effect maybe? I never know...) on pump speed and head. Not to mention the HSA issues (which probably would actually be an issue as your doing 100L+ batches).

 

[domonsura]

I reckon it would be fine with a bigger brewery, you might just want to make a point of maintaining the same inside diameter of fittings and hosing as comes off the pump for best performance. Make sure the pump is primed properly and there go your worries with HSA too.....
Many people (including myself) don't actually get the performance from our march pumps that they are capable of (21 litres a minute depending on head distance), because we restrict the flow with smaller diameter fittings. Some of the 1/2" stuff is half the inside diameter of the actual pump outlet. When I run my March through full bore fittings i get almost a third again the performance as I do with reduced bore stuff. Something I will be doing something about with the new brewery.......

 

[mika]

I pump from HLT to over top of the Mash tun, height difference of ~1.2 seen by the pump, flooded suction so that takes a little away from it, but then I reckon my flowrate is closer to 8L/min. Not a drama as I'm generally not in that much of a rush and it is faster than gravity filling. That's using 1/2 fittings on the pump and no restriction on the end of the hose. Mine never seems to prime properly even with the pump well below the HLT level. So I take the end of the outlet hose and gravity feed water thru the pump before plumbing it back up and switching it on. Generally there's an almighty gulp of air back into the HLT and all is good, if not, the pump will just sit there and stew in it's own juices. I've thought about a 3-way valve on the outlet to bleed it out, but then it's another thing to clean, maintain and another flow restriction. Maybe one day.

 

[Offline]

What you have to remember about any pumps rated head is that it means Meters above the inlet fluids hight

For example if height of liquid in you HLT is one meter above the pump and your entry into the mash tun is one and a half meters above the pump, then you are only rasing the liquid half a meter ie half a meter head.

Someone correct me if Im wrong

 

[crozdog]

I use 1 on my 180l kettle & am very happy. It's mainly used to fill cubes post boil but also for pumping strike & sparge water up 1 - 1.5m.

I have had a flowrate problem when i was using the "stop" type garden fittings. These have a plastic thing inside em to stop the flow when the fitting is removed, but this seriously reduced the flow.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

My question in regards to making a 200ltr brew is how much head pressure can the pump take before it says enough is enough. Yes it can pump up to 2.7mtrs in height but what about the head pressure <_<

BYB

 

[crozdog]

My question in regards to making a 200ltr brew is how much head pressure can the pump take before it says enough is enough. Yes it can pump up to 2.7mtrs in height but what about the head pressure <_<

BYB

BYB,

Give karl @ Process pumps a call & ask him.