How Do I Tell How Fresh A "fresh Wort Kit"is?

[///]

Dont forget the cost of the packaging, freight, wages for the brewer ....

Scotty

 

[buttersd70]

Dont forget the cost of the packaging, freight, wages for the brewer ....

Scotty

I presume that this probably forms the most substantial part of the costs Scotty, and I agree that this is what seperates fwk from hb from a cost perspective. Time is money, and money is time, afterall.

From my own perspective, working as a photographer, there is a hell of a lot of difference between the cost of what I produce for myself, what I charge family and friends, and what I charge clients. And with the client charges, the vast majority of the costing is time related, not material costs.

 

[matti]

Matti, as TP pointed out, there`s also the cost of the hops for the d.i.y.
I guess that could be anything from $6 to $10 average?
Reigns it back a bit.

staggalee.

TRUE. APA with Amarillo is expensive as.
A regular brew say 30-40 IBU about 5-6 bucks.

Running the keg fridge and fermenting fridge added on $$
Upgrading brewery $$

It is a hobby and its is worth every drop :super:

 

[Sammus]

i dont like the cost break up. That would be one very boring beer. it would have to be 100% of the cheapest pale malt you could buy and single hop. Thats $20 in grain, about 10 in hops, then once you add some kettle finnings and a saf yeast, your looking at at least $35. More like 40 or 50 if you want some hop or malt variety or anything over 3.5-4%abv. Thats without any power costs or frieght if you get your ingedients over the 'net.

I havent brewed for months now (i did a huge stint a while ago thats still lasting me). But I have a big queue of recipes (including milds and simple pale ales, lagers and an ipa) and have priced the ingredients for all of them from several sources, they all average about $50ea for a 25L brew with dry yeast.

 

[dc59]

Sammus most HBS sell 25kg sack of base malt for around the $60 mark. That $2.40 per kilo which will mean you're only spending around $10 per batch on base malt.

Cracking fees for those without mills is generally only a few dollars for an entire sack. $20 for 4kg of base grain is way too expensive to be buying all the time. Ask them, even if they don't have the sacks on display, most places will sell them.

Including specialty grain, yeast and hops, most 22L batches cost me arount the $18 - 20 mark.

Dave.

 

[buttersd70]

i dont like the cost break up. That would be one very boring beer. it would have to be 100% of the cheapest pale malt you could buy and single hop. Thats $20 in grain, about 10 in hops, then once you add some kettle finnings and a saf yeast, your looking at at least $35. More like 40 or 50 if you want some hop or malt variety or anything over 3.5-4%abv. Thats without any power costs or frieght if you get your ingedients over the 'net.

I havent brewed for months now (i did a huge stint a while ago thats still lasting me). But I have a big queue of recipes (including milds and simple pale ales, lagers and an ipa) and have priced the ingredients for all of them from several sources, they all average about $50ea for a 25L brew with dry yeast.

I hate to think what the hell you're paying for malt, sammus. My first AG had 6 malt varieties in it (I got carried away), 3 hops, and a brand new smackpack, and still came in at under $40.

 

[bradsbrew]

i dont like the cost break up. That would be one very boring beer. it would have to be 100% of the cheapest pale malt you could buy and single hop. Thats $20 in grain, about 10 in hops, then once you add some kettle finnings and a saf yeast, your looking at at least $35. More like 40 or 50 if you want some hop or malt variety or anything over 3.5-4%abv. Thats without any power costs or frieght if you get your ingedients over the 'net.

I havent brewed for months now (i did a huge stint a while ago thats still lasting me). But I have a big queue of recipes (including milds and simple pale ales, lagers and an ipa) and have priced the ingredients for all of them from several sources, they all average about $50ea for a 25L brew with dry yeast.

Bloody hell the ingredient costs power and gas costs and the mortgage repayment percentage breakdown to have a house to brew in, not to mention my hourly rate if I broke it down it probably
it probably costs me $300 bucks a brew. No wonder SWMBO is crackin the shits about my brewing.
I dont brew to save money I brew because I like the taste of what I make. And I dont like to pay $70 bucks for a carton of nice beer.
The missus loved it the other week when I grabbed a couple of 5 litre FWK's for $32 each. First one I just threw a yeast from the fridge. After tasting the first one I threw about 10 bucks worth of willamette and amarillo into the fermenter and steeped in 300g of carared. Just because I had to try and make it better. But being able to pour it in the fermenter add water and yeast does make them worth it when you are strapped for time.

Cheers brad

 

[Sammus]

Sammus most HBS sell 25kg sack of base malt for around the $60 mark. That $2.40 per kilo which will mean you're only spending around $10 per batch on base malt.

Cracking fees for those without mills is generally only a few dollars for an entire sack. $20 for 4kg of base grain is way too expensive to be buying all the time. Ask them, even if they don't have the sacks on display, most places will sell them.

Including specialty grain, yeast and hops, most 22L batches cost me arount the $18 - 20 mark.

Dave.

I hate to think what the hell you're paying for malt, sammus. My first AG had 6 malt varieties in it (I got carried away), 3 hops, and a brand new smackpack, and still came in at under $40.

Have any of you even read what I was replying to?

4-5 kgs grains $9-12 if you bulk buy. $20 if you don't.

Yes, no shit if you buy it in bulk it will be cheaper. The 20 bucks for 5kg (not 4) figure I just pulled from Craftbrewer which I thought you all love oh-so-much.

My first AG was also much less than $50 (about $26 iirc) but hop prices have nearly tripled in the past year or so, and grain has gone up too.

 

[Sammus]

OK here's a example to illustrate my point. Take the famous nelson sauvin summer ale that everyone seems to love (haven't tried it myself). looking at prices on Craftbrewer, which nearly everyone here seems to buy from.

Ingredients:
5kg malt $21.43
90g hops $7.50
US-05 $4.50
Subtotal: $33.43
Cheapest shipping option: $13.25
Total: $46.68

No, this isn't everyones standard scenario, I too can get the ingredients cheaper from my LHBS (which I do). But I think its rediculous to say that going all out with liquid yeast etc the most you will pay is $33.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Dont forget the cost of the packaging, freight, wages for the brewer ....

Scotty

Yes Scotty///,Time is money, funny how the allied costs are not factored in by the average brewing community.I have considered producing FWP's but taken into account the time factor its not worth it unless you can produce 1000 L +.
You guys do a great job with your service, keep it up.When do we see your FW's here ?

GB

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

OK here's a example to illustrate my point. Take the famous nelson sauvin summer ale that everyone seems to love (haven't tried it myself). looking at prices on Craftbrewer, which nearly everyone here seems to buy from.

Ingredients:
5kg malt $21.43
90g hops $7.50
US-05 $4.50
Subtotal: $33.43
Cheapest shipping option: $13.25
Total: $46.68

No, this isn't everyones standard scenario, I too can get the ingredients cheaper from my LHBS (which I do). But I think its rediculous to say that going all out with liquid yeast etc the most you will pay is $33.

Or cheaper if you look around.Nudge Nudge.
GB

 

[buttersd70]

Have any of you even read what I was replying to?

Yes Sammus, I have read what you were replying to. I also read where you said that in order to get any malt variety or an abv >3.5-4% your claim that it would cost "More like 40 or 50 if you want some hop or malt variety or anything over 3.5-4%abv". And now I've also read your statement that the grain for the Nelson Sauvin ale (which I also haven't tried) is "Subtotal: $33.43". If the shipping is included, then that comes to " $46.68", which falls into line with your earlier statement. However, not everyone pays for shipping. And not everyone purchases their grain at Craftbrewer. If I was to purchase my grain locally, I could get these ingredients, wven paying the higher 'per kg' price, for around the same 33.43 amount (cheaper, actually, cos I wouldn't get the yeast.)......which is a bit of a stretch from your statement of "More like 40 or 50 if you want some hop or malt variety or anything over 3.5-4%abv".

It was the "40 or 50" to which I was specifically replying. And unless you are factoring in freight, this figure is way off, even in your own example.

 

[Sammus]

Well there is no malt or hop variety in my example add another 2kg of grain and some more hops and your over $50 pretty quickly.

I also get my brewing ingredients elsewhere, I was just using CB to show the kind of like how the average brewer on the forum seems to go. Every second thread is people saying how much they love buying all their stuff from Ross, so I didn't realise it was such an outlandish way to construct an example. I was using it to illustrate how for the average joe an extremely simple beer is much more than the $13.50 figure originally estimated, and in fact can be quite close in cost to a FWK.

I know some of us buy bulk malt and crack our own grain or grow our own hops or whatever and can make 20L of beer for $13.50. For most of us its not even possible, and a small beer with a very simple grainbill is on the upper end of the originally stated range (and far beyond it if you need it freighted to you). Not trying to start a war here, just give a more realistic price for your average joe or someone just getting into AG that doesnt have a mill and a hop farm

 

[buttersd70]

Well there is no malt or hop variety in my example add another 2kg of grain and some more hops and your over $50 pretty quickly.

I also get my brewing ingredients elsewhere, I was just using CB to show the kind of like how the average brewer on the forum seems to go. Every second thread is people saying how much they love buying all their stuff from Ross, so I didn't realise it was such an outlandish way to construct an example. I was using it to illustrate how for the average joe an extremely simple beer is much more than the $13.50 figure originally estimated, and in fact can be quite close in cost to a FWK.

I know some of us buy bulk malt and crack our own grain or grow our own hops or whatever and can make 20L of beer for $13.50. For most of us its not even possible, and a small beer with a very simple grainbill is on the upper end of the originally stated range (and far beyond it if you need it freighted to you). Not trying to start a war here, just give a more realistic price for your average joe or someone just getting into AG that doesnt have a mill and a hop farm

Fair enough. I think that for the most part, it is, in reality, going to come in somewhere between the two extremes.
I've got to admit, not only have I not brewed the NS you used as an example, I'm not familiar with the recipe...I assumed it would be more complex. However, balance will beat complexity any day of the week. But that argument is for another day, we're getting way off topic, and I don't want to start a war either, so lets call it quits and have a beer. :beer:

 

[afromaiko]

If you're going to use PH Stabiliser in the mash and remove haze after fermentation with Polyclar then that will add another dollar to your AG brew price.

 

[///]

You guys do a great job with your service, keep it up.When do we see your FW's here ?
GB

I do believe Brew Cellar has this in the works...

As with all beer, packaging is the killer. Even when we buy 480 at a time, the 17l cubes (ours make 22l not 19l of finished beer), the cost is killer.

Scotty

 

[staggalee]

How about someone doing an accurate cost comparison between fresh wort kits and making the same thing for yourself at home? {or trying to}
Not that I do AG, but interested to see that after seeing what my local hbs charges for fresh wort kits.

staggalee.

Well, all that went everwhere, but it really went nowhere.
So let`s assume for simplicity`s sake I don`t own a hop farm or buy bulk grain, I live close to a shop that sells, say, St. Peters Amirillo Ale FWK AT $43, and he`s selling US56 @ $5.40 per 11g. {expensive isn`t it, but this is just a scenario}
Right, I buy the above, make it up to 20 litres without adding anything more.

What would be an average cost to make the same beer myself assuming I bought everything for it at a sensible price and there was no freight costs involved?

staggalee.

 

[warra48]

AG brewing is not as cheap as you can brew.

If you want the absolute cheapest, buy a discounted kit at the supermarket etc, chuck in a kilo of BiLo sugar, use the cheap kit yeast, and you're all done for under $20. I wouldn't want to drink the K&K stuff.

I reckon my AG brews cost anything up to about $50 a brew, but they're definitely worth it, and I hugely enjoy drinking them. And that's not counting the amortisation costs of investing in my AG set up.

Given that FWK are generally accepted as being up to or close to AG standard, they seem like reasonable value to me.

Arguing about semantics down to the last $ seems pointless. If you want to totally control your brewing process, brew an AG batch. If you are strapped for time, then a FWK seems like a reasonable alternative, although giving you less ultimate choice in how your beer comes out. If you are a real cheapskate, put a K&K together.

It's all down to personal choice, and what works for you as an individual, and that's where the argument ends for me.

 

[staggalee]

AG brewing is not as cheap as you can brew.

If you want the absolute cheapest, buy a discounted kit at the supermarket etc, chuck in a kilo of BiLo sugar, use the cheap kit yeast, and you're all done for under $20. I wouldn't want to drink the K&K stuff.

I reckon my AG brews cost anything up to about $50 a brew, but they're definitely worth it, and I hugely enjoy drinking them. And that's not counting the amortisation costs of investing in my AG set up.

Given that FWK are generally accepted as being up to or close to AG standard, they seem like reasonable value to me.

Arguing about semantics down to the last $ seems pointless. If you want to totally control your brewing process, brew an AG batch. If you are strapped for time, then a FWK seems like a reasonable alternative, although giving you less ultimate choice in how your beer comes out. If you are a real cheapskate, put a K&K together.

It's all down to personal choice, and what works for you as an individual, and that's where the argument ends for me.

I didn`t ask what is the absoloute cheapest way around it, or seek advice on K&K with Bilo sugar etc, thank you .
I thought the question simple enough.

staggalee.

 

[wyatt_girth]

I have fermented 4 or 5 FWKs in the last few months and as a K&K brewer I feel they are good value. Time is a big factor when it comes to me deciding what mix I'm gonna put on, and on a Saturday morning a FWK is just too easy. Now I know some of you AGers think that as far as time goes a kit and bits brew is pretty quick and simple, but my weekends (like most of yours no doubt) are just too short and I try and spend as much time as I can with the mrs and our 3yo dirt magnet, so 'just add water' does the trick.

As for the cost, my most recent kit brew with malt extract, saf yeast, and a good serving of hops, cost me $36. In comparison the FWKs were $40 including a saf yeast with the option to add a little more hop action if I choose.

That few bucks more gives me a good beer and plenty of time to spare. And my mates don't need to know that all I did was add water and yeast.