Home-toasting Oak Advice

[Bizier]

I purchased some raw American oak chips, which were the largest chips available in the HBS. They are not as large as I'd like, I'd say around 1/3 the size that would normally come out of a big woodchipper like Asplundh etc use.

I was looking to get a range of toast levels into my beer to kind of emulate staves. My idea is to make a little cup out of foil and try to pile the chips tightly in there, and use my electric oven grill to apply heat to the top, so that the chips on the bottom receive less heat, and there should be some kind of gradient.

I was really impressed with the Penfolds 28 2008 release, which was big on the American oak, definitely inflencing my decision (initially I was going to go with French). I would like to get the coconut type flavours.

This is going into a 1.111 old ale w/brett which I would like to bottle and sample into the future. I am thinking of adding 30g to 25L primary, and racking off after a few weeks.

 

[DanRayner]

very cool - I have no advice regarding your question sorry :/

But I've been trying some oaking of my beers recently and this isn't too :icon_offtopic: - I've been using chips from french oak staves but I wanted to try some american stuff (very cool oak spirals) and was unsure about AQIS and Customs so I wrote to them and I got a reply:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS).

There are no special requirements for posting wooden items to Australia. All items made from or containing wood/wood pieces, sent to Australia through the post, that are free from insects, bark, soil and other plant material (such as seeds and leaves) or other contaminates are permitted by Quarantine, and will be handed back to Australia Post immediately.

The only time any item will be seized is if on inspection, insects, soil or any other contaminates are found the item must undergo treatment at a cost of to the consignee and the consignee will be notified by AQIS before any treatment is carried out. Once payment and treatment has been completed, the items will be handed back to Australia post for delivery. Treatment can take up to 5 weeks to complete.

Information regarding import conditions for specific products can be found using AQIS's Import Conditions Database (ICON). ICON is a simple and convenient way to access information about Australian import conditions for many thousands of commodities. ICON can be used to determine if a commodity intended for export to Australia needs a quarantine permit, mandatory treatment or if there are any other quarantine requirements. ICON can be accessed via the internet at the following address http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon.

All mail items entering Australia are screened and if items of quarantine concern are identified, they will require inspection. It is important that all declarations on mail parcels are true and provides sufficient detail about the goods inside. There is an opportunity to list all the contents of the parcel on the Customs Declaration that is available from post offices around the world.

Kind Regards,

AQIS Mail and Detector Dog Program

From:
Sent: Thursday, 24 February 2011 4:07 PM
To: DAFF Public Relations
Subject: oak infusion spirals for flavouring beer/wine/etc - A message from the DAFF website feedback form

Subject: oak infusion spirals for flavouring beer/wine/etc

Page: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/american-oa...eavy-toast.html

Comments: Hi, I would really like to buy a few (less than ten) oak infusion spirals from the USA but wanted to know of my chances of getting them successfully through AQIS/Customs. They are spirals of American oak wood that have been fashioned/turned so that they can be put into brewing vessels to impart oak flavour into beer (or wine) with lots of surface area. This is done as a cheaper and easier alternative to putting the beer or wine into a large oak barrel. http://www.midwestsupplies.com/american-oa...eavy-toast.html This is who makes them http://www.infusionspiral.com/ Assuming they are clean wood (without any borers - which I wouldn't want in my beer anyway!) will they pass AQIS if I order them through the mail? kind regards, Dan Rayner

 

[fat matt]

You want to put the heat on the bottom so the chips can heat up. Spread the chips out on a baking tray, not to loose. You can soak the chips in water or fruit juice for half an hour. You can also use a wok to smoke your grains, probably easier if you have a small amount, you can control the heat alot better.

 

[Bizier]

You want to put the heat on the bottom so the chips can heat up. Spread the chips out on a baking tray, not to loose. You can soak the chips in water or fruit juice for half an hour. You can also use a wok to smoke your grains, probably easier if you have a small amount, you can control the heat alot better.

I am asking about adding a level of toast to oak chips, which will then be added to the fermenter to impart an oak character, like how some wine is oaked. This is nothing to do with smoking grain.

:icon_offtopic:
Seeing as I now have oak chips, I might smoke grain for another beer - but I will do that in my smoker.

Does anyone else notice anything quercy about my post?
Thank you, thank you. I am here all week, try the fish.

 

[barls]

id do it the same as toasting malt mate. spread out chips out on a tray. then in to an oven for a period of time. hell you could even do it in a frypan if you really want to.

after a quick google search
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&sour...Z7RwHrbYWXuBD1A

 

[Bizier]

I saw that, but my aim is to avoid the uniformity of toast that comes with small particle size and heating evenly on all sides.

 

[manticle]

When I've toasted, I've simply spread them out in a dry pan. They don't toast evenly as the shape is pretty uneven anyway. If you pack them too tightly, you may struggle to toast some parts at all.

My bag of 1 kg chips will last me a lifetime though so if you have any major quantity, you have nothing to lose by playing around. Personally I'd try just roasting 3 or 4 batches to different levels to get the variation you're after.

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

I had an idea of doing this in a brown ale. Is it usually brown - dark beers people add oak chips to? or can they be added to light/pale beers aswell?

When i do this i will definitely be using manticles method.

 

[Silo Ted]

How many months do you plan to let your beer age for on chips, and in what type of vessel? I would like to try my hand at a the first half of a version of Murray's AA4, but am waiting until I get a glass demi or a BetterBottle if its going to sit around for up to 12 months before blending into a fresh batch.

 

[Bizier]

My old ale is in a plastic 30L fermenter now for the head space, and I'm thinking of keeping it there til the oak is done, then moving to a glass carboy for ageing before bottling.

 

[Bizier]

How many months do you plan to let your beer age for on chips

I am keen to have a Flanders red ale in my glass carboy over the cool parts of the year, so I want to age it until I feel that it is OK to bottle, perhaps with a touch of priming sugar, or just none at all.

If you pack them too tightly, you may struggle to toast some parts at all.

That is totally the idea. You can't evenly toast a barrel. I am aiming for a gradient of toast.

I think I will just do it, and post some pics.

 

[Bizier]

OK, not the most scientific of experiments.

I made a little ramekin style cup from foil, sorry, not shown. I added 30g American oak chips to the thing, sprinkled with a few drops of water and used the electric grill on high for about 20 mins. I then set these aside and tried another batch on low for about 80 mins, and this was satisfactory, but I couldn't resist turning it up again to high and because they were already hot, they quickly charred. I thought these were perfect, but I stuffed them by pouring a beer and forgetting that I was sanitising them via steam, so they boiled and charred in the little pot on the stove, so they were discarded. It was late at this stage so I gave up. This morning I took the first batch, and removed the most charred of the chips, and made a shallower bowl and grilled on medium for about a half hour, which actually took one to the point of smouldering. It is slightly heavier than I was aiming for, but I think the flavours will still go very well in the beer I am making.

I have learned that the gradient thing is in mm, whereas I had it in my head that it would be in 10s of mm, so you do need to go shallower, say 3 chips deep rather than 10 chips deep.

Judging by the aroma I think the lower electric grill heat for longer will provide the coconut type flavour (which is reputedly achieved through infrared toasting).

My house smells like I am both making bourbon and commercially toasting marshmallows.

The first batch, untoasted with some keys for scale



The first batch, first toasting
\


The first batch, second and final toasting (apologies for whitebalance change) - in fermenter



The second (discarded) batch

 

[kirem]

the better oak alternatives, go to great lengths to prevent the charcoal bits on the edges of chips - essentially the charcoal bits is why staves/planks give better results than chips. But there are some good chips around without the charcoal bits.

The charcoal will give you that cheap oak, pencil shavings, acrid type characters

For your efforts, after toasting, it might be worth throwing the chips around in something to remove the charcoal bits from the edges of the chips.

If you want some information on toasting temps and humidities and the associated flavours/characters, I could probably dig something out for you.

good luck

 

[Bizier]

If you dig it out, I would appreciate it. I coundn't find much on it on the net, perhaps I was missing some better search terms.

I was even considering splitting a batch into 2L jugs and adding incrementally different toasts of oak to each for a club experiment.

I would like to write a wiki for public benefit, but seeing as I am a complete novice, it is just a little ahead of myself.