Hitting the wall

[Dave70]

Not having a go at you, azztech, but its entirely possible to, as the they say, have 'all the gear and no idea'. VB is brewed using million dollar state of the art equipment, for example.

Personally I never got the results I was chasing until I switched to AG. Much greater control over the ingredients process. My rig at the time consisted of a beaten up 50L esky, converted keg for the boil, two cornys and an e bay fridge. My tuition came via this joint, a book or two and you tube. I truly believe you need to feel part of the process to let it get under your skin. Dumping goo into bucket and stirring just doesn't cut it. I've made cups of coffee more involved than K & K brewing. Once you get the hang of it, its easy as pissing on the back of your hand.

This thread buy a former AHB member demonstrated how easily and inexpensively it can be done.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/38674-move-to-all-grain-for-thirty-bucks/

 

[WarmerBeer]

... (tranny blew on the pole out front) and lost it all... Won't go into as much detail on the iPhone..

Some people just have no sense of propriety these day.

 

[azztech]

we learn from our mistakes, help us find yours, pick one of your failed brews and put it up here: replace the orange with your info

there are mistakes below and questions to be asked and i brewed like this for a time - you're not alone.

style = pale ale,
ingredients = 1 x coopers australian pale ale tin, 1 x coopers brew enhancer, 40gms hops, 23 ltr brew, expected abv 5%
process = heated up cooper brew tin to make extract soft, put brew enhancer into some hot water to disolve, boiled some hops for an hour, strained the hops and put all together and mixed up to 23ltrs, the sticker on the side of the keg was reading somewhere around mid to high 20's, sprinkled on some good yeast, put in the cupboard with lid on and air lock
fermentation notes = bubbled hard for 48hours then nothing, left it for 2 weeks, took the lid off and had a whiff (burnt the old nostrils a bit) - had a look at it, the surface was nice and clear, didn't bother with taking a gravity sample, it was done
bottling notes = primed each bottle with the right amount of sugar, bottled off the brew, capped it and put in spare room at ambient temperature, left it two weeks
tasting notes = no fizz, tastes like wet cardboard, sherry like with a noticeable twang, very bitter - can't see this getting that much better over time to be great
tasting notes = 2 weeks later ~ so now one month in the bottle, a nice "pop' when opened, not as bad a twang but still there, very full tasting in the mouth i wonder if the beer got down to a Final Gravity of 1012 as it tastes very full and gummy, very bitter
tasting notes = went back to this brew after 8 weeks, fizzy beer, can't really describe the off flavour but the beer is full in the mouth and very bitter, won't brew that style again


If you could give/hand over these sort of details ~ which of course means showing us your warts and all,...

stick with it mate!

As I said before, I know where I have gone wrong.

Kit only- Blonde lager that was too warm the first 24 hours and ended up with a heap of fruity tones. This is also the one and only time I used a kit yeast.
Extract - 2x Bud clone lagers that were low in ABV (~3.5%) that I can only put down to low OG (in the mid 1030s from memory) and probably exasperated by not pitching enough lager yeast (following recipe and yeast advice from LHBS).
Extract - Guinness clone that is again low in ABV (3.5%) and colour is far too light (recipe from LHBS).
Extract - Stone & Wood clone that tasted great and decent ABV - the taste has gone a bit bitter as they've aged longer though.
Kit +grain+hop - Pilsner that was absolutely awful - my own experiment with left over ingredients. This was a comedy of errors - mismatched ingredients, ferment too warm due to no temp control space, kegged too early, over carbed.
Extract - Squires Golden Ale clone down at the moment that the LHBS tweaked the recipe to get more ABV, early samples taste okay but who knows.

I use decent yeast I believe, US05, S04, S23 M84 - depending on the brew obviously. I dry pitch direct to FV @ optimum pitching temp.

Equipment is all practically new, clean and well san. I've watched what feels like a million YouTube clips on prep and san so I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any bacteria.

I have chest fridge that's been fully san and fitted with a probe temp controller so again, temp is not an issue, unless of course I run out of space as I did with one brew.

Timing is a bit iffy, my first couple I started drinking too early and they were quite green. But even after a month they are still pretty ordinary - I certainly wouldn't give one to a friend.

Anyhow, there a separate posts about some of these already so most have already been troubleshot. I was just having a vent due to the frustration of it all.

 

[azztech]

I am going to give a FWK a shot as those have suggested above. If it turns out as expected I guess all I'm left with is the recipe.

 

[azztech]

Some people just have no sense of propriety these day.

Not sure what you're getting at?

 

[Danwood]

Not sure what you're getting at?

He's making a low-brow joke about Trannies blowing poles.

Classic Warmer Beer !

 

[WarmerBeer]

He's making a low-brow joke about Trannies blowing poles.

Classic Warmer Beer !

C'mon, lets keep it on topic. Don't want nobody bringing down the hammer

Back to OP, the top 5 things you can do to improve your finished beer, imho, are (in order of importance):

1. Sanitation
2. Temperature control
3. Sanitation
4. Yeast health (quantity of healthy, viable, yeast)
5. Sanitation

Oh, and don't forget about sanitation.

Edit: to re-iterate what MXD said way back in Post #2, join your local Brew Club. Quality of my own beers improved considerably when I started talking to, and listening to, other more experienced brewers.

 

[azztech]

Your next brew, why not tell the ingredients and quantities you intent to use, and step by step the processes you intent to do to produce your brew. By doing this persons on this forum will be able to check off those ingredients/processes and thus help to achieve a great outcome.
Cheers

See attached couple of pictures, they are my last two recipes as supplied by the LHBS.

My actual SGs were:

• Guinness clone - 1042 -> 1015
• Golden Ale - 1046 - still fermenting

Any comments on these recipes? Do they look reasonable? I questioned the stout as there was a lot of light malt in there but was told too much dark malt and the yeast wont process it all. When I was there picking up the golden ale gear I told them about the unusually low ABV and light colour and they said they are now rehashing the recipe - bleh

Looking at the spreadsheet figures it looks like the OG is not far from expected, but my FGs are high - thoughts? I'm assume not enough yeast? Try a starter?
For pitching, I bring my yeast up to room temp after being in the fridge (sachet on the bench for an hour), I shake the hell out of my FV to aerate, pitch yeast at optimum temp (sprinkle dry yeast evenly over wort), then drop the FV into the fridge at optimum temp. This seems to be a pretty usual way to do it for a novice, yeah?

 

[azztech]

He's making a low-brow joke about Trannies blowing poles.

Classic Warmer Beer !

Oh dear.

 

[azztech]

Come to think of it most of my apparent yeast attenuation has been in the 60s and not 70s as you'd expect...

Temp wise my ales are pitched @ 22c and stored @20c (+/- 1c) and my lagers pitched @ 14c and stored at 10c (+/- 1c).

Generally speaking I wait until I have 3 days of steady SG readings before racking.

 

[sponge]

Missing OG from extract/kit is pretty hard unless it's been diluted too much.

How are you measuring OG? Hydrometer? Have you tested it in 20'C water to confirm reading of 1.000?


EDIT: Don't worry about lager yeasts for now. Concentrate on getting everything right with an ale yeast first IMO.

 

[Mikeyr]

Err... you're in Brissie .... it's summer and it's warm, the biggest single impact above sanitation and you're probably doing that ok is TEMPERATURE.

I totally concur with the Fresh wort kit, but if your temps are too high you get those flavours that my mates associate with home brew. Lots of esters and blah!

For general "Ale" if you can hold to sub 20 and ideally 18c the taste will be totally different. Fridge, ice bath, whatever ......

The ideal is a nice stable temp, but keeping it cool anyway you can is better than poaching it!

 

[Mikeyr]

OK so you posted while i was typing ...... ignore everything i just said .....DOH!

 

[azztech]

Missing OG from extract/kit is pretty hard unless it's been diluted too much.

How are you measuring OG? Hydrometer? Have you tested it in 20'C water to confirm reading of 1.000?


EDIT: Don't worry about lager yeasts for now. Concentrate on getting everything right with an ale yeast first IMO.

No, I haven't - but I do have two different hydrometers and the readings are the same. I'll try this to double check though.

Edit: My lagers came out okay taste wise, just low in ABV again.

 

[azztech]

OK so you posted while i was typing ...... ignore everything i just said .....DOH!

All good. Temp is not an issue I don't believe.

 

[Nizmoose]

Hi Azztech it appears you do have some idea of what youre not quite nailing and if you make a conscious effort to fix those you'll be well on your way, how much info have you read? I'd suggest reading how to brew (the online free version will absolutely do) from front to back before doing your next brew, you'll learn a heap. Keep it simple and find a good recipe that works (I'll pm you my first ever extract beer which was one of the best beers ive made). Any of the recipes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles would be a great place to start. And in the fermentation department, whilst the waiting will kill you, try dropping the temp to more like 18c or 19c with a yeast like us05 and give it two weeks in the primary fermenter, I think that alone will do you a lot of good. Pick a good recipe, nail the process and get the fermentation right and you should notice massive improvement.

 

[GalBrew]

There are a few details in your description of your process that you have glossed over such as "optimum pitching temp". Every detail is important, unsurprisingly your pitching temp is very important. More details please.

 

[wobbly]

As others have stated make sure your yeast handling procedures are in accordance with good sound practices.

Are you sprinkling the dry yeast onto the wort or onto the foam created when you shook the **** out of the fermenter as this may be causing some issues with the number of yeast cells making it into the wort

Others may/will disagree but according to the manufacturers good practice is to rehydrate the yeast prior to pitching see here for a typical procedure http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/04/03/dry-yeast-in-home-brewed-beer/

Following rehydration as above you should then condition the yeast slurry by tempering it to the same temperature you are pitching it into by adding a small amount of wort to your rehydration vessel followed by a second dose say 10 mins later and THEN pitch this total volume into your fermenter

According to what I have read failure to do the above will have a detrimental effect on the number of yeast cells that survive the rehydration process and into the wort as the yeast can be stressed and die by being rehydrated in the sweet wort rather than warm water

As I said you will find as many proponents that say pitching direct into the fermenter works for them but hey you are having issues so take a word out of the manufacturers book and rehydrate according to their recommended procedure as Fermentis details here http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-tricks/yeast-rehydration/

Hope this helps

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[azztech]

Hi Azztech it appears you do have some idea of what youre not quite nailing and if you make a conscious effort to fix those you'll be well on your way, how much info have you read? I'd suggest reading how to brew (the online free version will absolutely do) from front to back before doing your next brew, you'll learn a heap. Keep it simple and find a good recipe that works (I'll pm you my first ever extract beer which was one of the best beers ive made). Any of the recipes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles would be a great place to start. And in the fermentation department, whilst the waiting will kill you, try dropping the temp to more like 18c or 19c with a yeast like us05 and give it two weeks in the primary fermenter, I think that alone will do you a lot of good. Pick a good recipe, nail the process and get the fermentation right and you should notice massive improvement.

Thanks for the tip on the slightly lower temps. I have read the online 'how to brew' and certain chapters I have read a few times. My average ferment for the primary has been ~10 days. I take my first SG read on day 7 and then another 2 times over the next couple of days and then rack off the day after that. Would the extra 4 days on the cake make significant difference with an ale?

Another thought, my beer storage room is about 26c. I rack off to a bottling bucket, into bottles/kegs and store in here. Would I get strange flavours from a warmer secondary? Sure hope not, I'd need a cool room to store all the beer @ 20c...

 

[Yob]

While I (good gods) agree with most of the above, the manufacturers advice is sometimes a bit contradictory..


REHYDRATION INSTRUCTIONS: Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.

Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition.

from HERE for example..

wish theyd just take a bloody stance, or release mortality figures (based on a range of OG's) so this long lived discussion can be put to bed...