Help with efficiency

[s_t_r_o_b_e]

Hey team

SimoB and I did a brew today with some new gear and we're trying to fine tune it. Took heaps of measurements throughout the day and we're confused by our original gravity result.

We ended up getting more volume into the kettle than the recipe said and the mash efficiency (according to Brewsmith) was 81% (compared to the recipe's 77%) - so that was good. What we're confused about though is that out original gravity ended up being 1.050 (25L in the fermenter) when the recipe said it should be 1.052 (25L in the fermenter).

How has the OG dropped from 1.052 to 1.050 when our mash efficiency was higher? With the additional 1.5ish litres in the kettle pre-boil, I would've thought we'd definitely hit a higher OG as we boiled it right down to 25L...

Ideas? Where have we gone wrong?

 

[yum beer]

You have a higher efficiency because you got a higher volume.
If you boiled it longer to reduce the volume you would probably have hit your numbers.
You may need to adjust somewhere in your settings, maybe either boil off rate or losses.

 

[s_t_r_o_b_e]

Yeah we actually hit the preboil numbers exactly, even though we had the higher volume.

If we got the losses or boil off rate wrong, shouldn't we still have got a higher OG? If the mash efficiency was higher and we actually boiled more off then that's two reasons we should've got a higher OG isn't it?

 

[SimoB]

Thought I may as well post my new rig...





Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[JDW81]

I wouldn't be too concerned by missing your OG by 2 points, however, how much was left in the kettle post boil? If it is a new rig you may not quite have your volumes dialled in as accurately as you think. Also, what temps did you take your gravities at? If you are 5-10 degrees above or below your hydrometer's calibration temp (assuming you use a hydro, not refractometer) they gravity you read will be 2ish points off the actual gravity.

It takes a few brews to dial in all the numbers on a new rig, and I reckon you've done well to get within 2 points of your planned OG.

My advice, have a beer and toast to the first brew on a flash looking new bit of kit.

JD

 

[verysupple]

I've come across a similar conundrum in the past. I'm pretty sure what happened to me was the pre-boil hydrometer samples had a lot of trub in them because I BIAB and don't recirc or do any other wort clarification pre-boil. Post-boil there was very little trub in the sample as it settled to the bottom of my kettle. The sugar didn't go anywhere just the amount of other crud in solution changed.

 

[Smokomark]

Did you cool your samples before taking your readings?

 

[SimoB]

used a refractometer and we test both straight after the boil and also left a small sample to cool. The reading was the same. I am going to take a sample tomorrow when it drops to 20 degrees before I pitch the yeast... maybe it will give a different sample.

It has to come down to the boil kettle not being tuned in the equipment profile correctly ... only thing I can think of.

 

[Blitzer]

Thought I would post in here I'm also having efficiency issues, I no sparge BIAB and was recently getting 60% efficiency for like 6 brews which were aimed at around 1.048 OG.
I just do a brew aimed at 1.078 OG and for some reason got 54% efficiency..

Now I'm already not that happy with 60% but if i lose another 5% doing higher gravity brews it's becoming ridiculous. I feel like 54% is just too low. I did switch to the new craftbrewer bag for the last brew as it mentioned an "improved design", though I shouldn't think that would be so much of an issue.

I'm getting the right amount of wort into fermenter so I can't boil more.. and I'm using 5.2 in the mash though it doesn't seem to do much yield wise.

Would a cold water sparge be better than no sparge at all? Would a warm water sparge be better? I'm really losing no time sparging as it's during my squeeze the bag and start heating for a boil time anyway..
And does anyone have any other suggestions?

Hope it all made sense, Thanks

 

[lukiferj]

Thought I would post in here I'm also having efficiency issues, I no sparge BIAB and was recently getting 60% efficiency for like 6 brews which were aimed at around 1.048 OG.
I just do a brew aimed at 1.078 OG and for some reason got 54% efficiency..

Now I'm already not that happy with 60% but if i lose another 5% doing higher gravity brews it's becoming ridiculous. I feel like 54% is just too low. I did switch to the new craftbrewer bag for the last brew as it mentioned an "improved design", though I shouldn't think that would be so much of an issue.

I'm getting the right amount of wort into fermenter so I can't boil more.. and I'm using 5.2 in the mash though it doesn't seem to do much yield wise.

Would a cold water sparge be better than no sparge at all? Would a warm water sparge be better? I'm really losing no time sparging as it's during my squeeze the bag and start heating for a boil time anyway..
And does anyone have any other suggestions?

Hope it all made sense, Thanks

How long is your mash? Are you doing a mash out? What's your mash temp and have you calibrated your thermometer?

 

[Blitzer]

Mash is 90 minutes
No mash out as I'm use an over the side immersion element, so just heating the wort as soon as the grains are out.
Mash temp for the 54% was 64. Though previously brews @ 60% efficiency were also mashed at 64.
Thermometer was calibrated in boiling water.

 

[SimoB]

I did a 2nd brew since this post.. I think in all good. Nerd to do another brew to be sure but it was my brew kettle not being calibrated top my software correctly. I do a slow 60min sparge 75min mas and mash out and got 87% mash eff. I don't do biab so can't really help with advice but maybe a lot of wort is staying in the bag.. bigger grain bill more wort to be absorbed in the grain when removed.

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[lukiferj]

Somethings not right. I get 75% minimum. I ramp up to 78 while pumping the wort and find if I don't do that I lose a few points. As per BribieGs tutorial.

Do you stir the mash at all? Break up dough balls etc?

 

[Blitzer]

I stir the mash at the start to break up dough balls, then once in the middle then once at the end. During a 90 min mash.

If I added a sparge it would just be to try get the sugars out of the grain, I mean I assume they are there and converted during the mash. Just unable to escape due to be pulled up when the bag is pulled out.. not sure.


lukiferj: Do you crush your own grain or double crush? I currently have the homebrew store do it, though I think it's just a single crush.Would that make a big difference?

 

[lukiferj]

I crush my own grain. Its finer than the lhbs used to do bit ot certainly not as fine as I have seen others who biab do. I'll try and track down a picture.

 

[lukiferj]

I find this to be a good enough crush for me.

 

[Blitzer]

That could definitely be an issue, that is a lot more powdery than the crush receive.

 

[lukiferj]

Could always get them to run it through twice or crush a bit finer if they are happy to.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I find this to be a good enough crush for me.

Try wetting your grains just before crushing. You will get more whole husks which will help eff and sparging

 

[lukiferj]

Try wetting your grains just before crushing. You will get more whole husks which will help eff and sparging

I BIAB in an urn so no sparging for me Stu