Hefeweizen Vent

[Ghostie]

Brewing a Hefeweizen today. My fourth attempt. Number one had the bottom of the Guten burnt. Number two was average and number three was down with an open fermentation experiment.

None was overly successful.

So today I brew number 4 and do all the step mashes on a 60% wheat and 40% Pilsner malt recipie.

Everything goes well except when I start to boil I stir the wort and notice a burnt smell. So I empty the wort into a cube and other containers and find my Guten has burnt again.

The wort smells of burning and the colour of the wort is off white.

I clean the boiler and tip the wort into the boiler and boil.

This brew did not go well. I will continue the process but this is ruined.

Vent over.

 

[Ghostie]

Brewing a Hefeweizen today. My fourth attempt. Number one had the bottom of the Guten burnt. Number two was average and number three was down with an open fermentation experiment.

None was overly successful.

So today I brew number 4 and do all the step mashes on a 60% wheat and 40% Pilsner malt recipie.

Everything goes well except when I start to boil I stir the wort and notice a burnt smell. So I empty the wort into a cube and other containers and find my Guten has burnt again.

The wort smells of burning and the colour of the wort is off white.

I clean the boiler and tip the wort into the boiler and boil.

This brew did not go well. I will continue the process but this is ruined.

Vent over.

Also just checked the gravity again and it is really low....1.03.

I'm turfing it.

 

[MHB]

Maybe the Guten isn't the right bit of kit for making Hefeweizen!
Personally I don't think very highly of any of the low cost 1V systems, one of the major failings is the heat density of the elements, they really are too high. Where you see it most obviously is in a case like this where you have a lot more protein than usual. Have done several Hefeweizen in a Baumeister and on multi vessel systems without any problems.

If you want to brew a Hefe, you could try a couple of things -
Use less wheat, 50/50, or even 60/40 the other way (more barley) will lower the protein content of the wort.
Skip the protein rest, will lower the total amount of protein in solution, there should still be plenty of wheat character.
Look at your crush, milling wheat properly is much more difficult than just milling barley, I would normally crack the wheat a couple of times, start with just touching the grain, then a bit finer and again finer so you get a kibble with very little dust.
Use German Wheat and Pilsner malt, Just went and had a look at a couple of old COA's and on paper they aren't all that different but from experience I find German Wheat malt much more utile than Australian. Probably isn't just the amount of protein but the way its modified during malting.

You could try something a bit out of the box, after mashing, pull the grain basket, heat to a gentle simmer, rest for 10 minutes, rack of to your cube leaving any trub in the kettle Rinse out), maybe even leave in the cube for an hour or to and return the wort to the kettle racking off any trub in the cube (depends how much you caught in the kettle/cube), should reduce the very high molecular weight proteins and any flour that are most likely to burn.

I have grown to love good Hefeweizen, always find them easy to make, quick turnaround, and very tasty young.
No idea why the gravity came out so low, calibrating your temperature sensor would be a good first place to look.
Your crush would be a good second. If your milling is producing a lot of flour, it could be this that is sticking to the heating surface and burning. Or a mix of flour and protein, sort of like old-fashioned flour glue.
Mark

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Have you checked the calibration of the temperature Ghostie? Also mashing at a lower wattage prevents scorching, I mash at 1700 watts some mash lower.

 

[Ghostie]

Thanks Mark and Legless. It looks likely that I will seek out a slightly bigger and better system than what I have now. Good idea about lowering the element for the mashing.

I'll have another crack in a couple of weeks I reckon.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Thanks Mark and Legless. It looks likely that I will seek out a slightly bigger and better system than what I have now. Good idea about lowering the element for the mashing.

I'll have another crack in a couple of weeks I reckon.

As a matter of interest Ghostie what temp are you mashing at?

 

[Ghostie]

As a matter of interest Ghostie what temp are you mashing at?

I did a four step mash...
Mash in at 43 c.....
Then 45 c for 10 mins
Then 50 c for 30 min
Then 60 c for 30 min
Mash out at 70 for 10 min

 

[MHB]

Just had a look at what Horst Dornbusch has to say in the Almanac
Wheat 55%
Pilsner 20%
Carahell 15%
Munich 2 (dark) 7%
Acidulated 3%

Mash in at 37oC, when fully hydrated
Raise to 45oC for 10 minutes
Raise to 52oC for 10 minutes
Raise to 62oC for 30 minutes
Raise to 72oC for 30 minutes
Raise to 78oC for 10 minutes to mash-out
Lauter for 100 minutes
Standard assumption is that the ramp rate would be about 1oC/Minute, so from 37-78oC is another 40 minutes, making about a 120 Minute (2 hour) mash.

I would think 30m @ 50 might be excessive and could be adding quite a lot of soluble protein to your wort. 30m @ 60oC may be a little cool and too long (under the Beta Peak), 70oC isn't a mash-out its really just under the peak for Alpha Amylase and 10 minutes is too short.
Missing an Alpha rest and a very cool Beta might be playing a role in your low gravity.
A mash-out is to end enzyme activity, fixing the properties of the wort, and to increase the fluidity of the wort to help with lautering/sparging/draining, none of that will happen at 70oC.

Personally never tried quite that complex a grain bill or mash regime for a Hefe.
But have been thinking about your problem, given your temperatures readings aren't radically out I suggest you might have a look at your milling, to minimise flour. I would probably revise my mash regime, I don't know where you got that one but it isn't really very sensible.
Mark

PS
As above, reducing the element heat during mashing wont hurt, at least the first time it might be worth tipping the wort out between mash and boil to see how much crud is on the heating surfaces. Never used a system with variable power so wouldn't think that way automatically, but it makes sense, less heat - less burning.
Your very low Alpha activity may be contributing to an atypically high amount of dextrin's in the wort, which will increase the chance of burning to.
M

 

[Elmar]

Brewing a Hefeweizen today. My fourth attempt. Number one had the bottom of the Guten burnt. Number two was average and number three was down with an open fermentation experiment.

None was overly successful.

So today I brew number 4 and do all the step mashes on a 60% wheat and 40% Pilsner malt recipie.

Everything goes well except when I start to boil I stir the wort and notice a burnt smell. So I empty the wort into a cube and other containers and find my Guten has burnt again.

The wort smells of burning and the colour of the wort is off white.

I clean the boiler and tip the wort into the boiler and boil.

This brew did not go well. I will continue the process but this is ruined.

Vent over.

Tap Fünferle Weizen - Boludo/Elmar https://share.brewfather.app/p89w8dTSdWeKNx

This is a recipe for Hefeweizen transferred to brewfather from German.
It's very nice. I use brewzilla to make it
Cheers Elmar

 

[Ghostie]

Tap Fünferle Weizen - Boludo/Elmar https://share.brewfather.app/p89w8dTSdWeKNx

This is a recipe for Hefeweizen transferred to brewfather from German.
It's very nice. I use brewzilla to make it
Cheers Elmar

Thanks Elmar.....I have a bit of time due to the current situation everyone is in so this could be the perfect opportunity to brew your recipe.

 

[Ghostie]

As you all know I have been trying to brew a traditional Hefeweizen and after 5 attempts I have had no success.

Last week I tried again using the recipe above from Mark as a starting point. I also reduced the heating element to use 1500 watts instead of 2500.

Plus the weather here has been so cold so the fermentation temperature ranged from 14-16 degs for 6 days.

I bottled the beer yesterday and it did smell a bit like bananas. I just tried a bottle and at long last I have the banana taste and the beer is as close to a Hefe as I have ever gotten.

So, lessons learn't here include seek advice, patience and persistence.

I still have to practice patience though.