Harsh hop bitterness

[welly2]

Trying to get to the bottom of a bitterness issue I've been noticing in my beers. Read this on reddit and wondered if there's any truth to it:

"One thing I see a lot of with bad homebrew IPA is that guys will cold crash their carboys to get the hops to fall to the bottom before bottling/kegging. This will cause oxidation that can be perceived as excessive bitterness."

 

[welly2]

That was bitterness in the title.

 

[Yob]

Written vy whom based on what?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

"One thing I see a lot of with bad homebrew IPA is that guys will cold crash their carboys to get the hops to fall to the bottom before bottling/kegging. This will cause oxidation that can be perceived as excessive bitterness."

I call ******** on that one.

Cold crashing wont affect oxidation

 

[Zorco]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/23h4ap/aftertaste_on_my_ipa_has_a_harsh_bitterness/

 

[Zorco]

I'm still going through the autopsy of my failed 40 litres of APA where my fridge chilled, warmed, chilled, warmed a few times. The change in air density would have effectively created a pump that would have caused air to come into the fermenter on the cool cycle and whatever CO2/air blend to be expelled on the warm cycle. Several cycles may have diluted my CO2 blanket and possibly the air inrush caused acetobacter to be given tickets to my ethanol.

I don't know if/how CO2 homogenises with air or if CO2 just blankets the beer still.

Only a hypothesis at this stage, but potentially a cause for O2 ingress into a fermenter upon cold crashing (of course depending on wort volume in the vessel, gas headspace and vessel geometry)

 

[Zorco]

I wanted to bump this one.

Any substance to this approach to the situation?

Welly, are you your hops fresh, aged, frozen?

 

[Patrick_BCB]

From the very few brews I have done I noticed an increase in bitterness when doing no-chill and not adjusting my in kettle hop addition schedule.

 

[indica86]

hat is a load of ****.
welly, post a recipe and method, that may help.

 

[wynnum1]

Could it be the water.

 

[manticle]

As much as I like the word vitrernest, I've edited the title for you.

 

[wynnum1]

As much as I like the word vitrernest, I've edited the title for you.

If you want to spell check use google.
Except if you have already used the word .

vitrernest
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/91017-harsh-hop-bitterness/

 

[TheWiggman]

I'm not a gun taster but I don't think I've ever mixed up oxidation with bitterness. Even what you're saying cosdog is a bit of a stretch (not having a go), because racking to a secondary is a common enough practice and there is a huge increase in oxygen exposure in doing so than leaving the beer in the primary. I've done it before and when done properly i.e. minimal disturbing, cold temps, hit of CO2 prior there is negligible impact on the flavour/longevity. Minimal sucking in from chilling... can't see it making a poofteenth of difference.
I feel like commenting on this is like commenting on a sensationalist headline and I feel guilty that I've been trolled.

 

[Matplat]

Even if you draw air in while cold crashing, CO2 is heavier than air so the CO2 blanket will still protect the beer....

 

[sp0rk]

Trying to get to the bottom of a bitterness issue I've been noticing in my beers. Read this on reddit and wondered if there's any truth to it:

"One thing I see a lot of with bad homebrew IPA is that guys will cold crash their carboys to get the hops to fall to the bottom before bottling/kegging. This will cause oxidation that can be perceived as excessive bitterness."

The bloke who wrote this claims he's been brewing professionally and at home for a decade
But his comments on Reddit make me question some of his advice...

 

[rude]

Could it be the water.

Im going with water as well but I have been going water mad lately

 

[Zorco]

I'm not a gun taster but I don't think I've ever mixed up oxidation with bitterness. Even what you're saying cosdog is a bit of a stretch (not having a go), because racking to a secondary is a common enough practice and there is a huge increase in oxygen exposure in doing so than leaving the beer in the primary. I've done it before and when done properly i.e. minimal disturbing, cold temps, hit of CO2 prior there is negligible impact on the flavour/longevity. Minimal sucking in from chilling... can't see it making a poofteenth of difference.
I feel like commenting on this is like commenting on a sensationalist headline and I feel guilty that I've been trolled.

It is a stretch..... I'm fishing. I think the cold crash cycling might have helped grubs get in. I'm not convinced it is a process that supports any meaningful oxidation for the OP.

Totally enjoy being told I'm wrong or off target - I'm a curious and life long learner.

 

[TheWiggman]

The bloke who wrote this claims he's been brewing professionally and at home for a decade
But his comments on Reddit make me question some of his advice...

The wonder of the internet. I'm actually an astronaut with 20 years' experience, been to space only 6 times but still know my stuff.

 

[welly2]

hat is a load of ****.
welly, post a recipe and method, that may help.

The beer in particular I was thinking about was a pretty simple pale ale. Hops were relatively new (frozen since I bought them a few months ago). Nothing too clever.


4.20 kg

Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC)

Grain

1

350.0 g

Caramalt (Joe White) (49.2 EBC)

Grain

2

200.0 g

Crystal, Light (Simpsons) (80.0 EBC)

Grain

3

200.0 g

Munich Malt (17.7 EBC)

Grain

4

13.0 g

Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.0%] - Boil 75 min

Hops

5

15.0 g

Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Boil 30 min

Hops

6

15.0 g

Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.0%] - Boil 30 min

Hops

7

1.32

Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15 min)

Misc

8

15.0 g

Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Boil 0 min

Hops

9

15.0 g

Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.0%] - Boil 0 min

Hops

10

1 pkgs

US-05

Yeast

11

1.32 tsp

Yeast Nutrient

Misc

12

50.0 g

Cascade [5.5%] - Dry Hop 3 days

Hops

13









Maybe it was just me as everyone else seemed to enjoy it and drink it.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

It is a stretch..... I'm fishing. I think the cold crash cycling might have helped grubs get in. I'm not convinced it is a process that supports any meaningful oxidation for the OP.

Totally enjoy being told I'm wrong or off target - I'm a curious and life long learner.

If cold crashing my opinion is that it should be air tight so it doesn't draw in any air.
That also means the walls of a plastic fermenter will cave in when it contracts.
Added 2c I made Stainless Steal plugs that fit tight in the airlock grommet. 30mm long 10mm thick stainless round rod rounded off one end and polished. Oh the things we do....

 

[Diesel80]

Welly, if it is too bitter cold. Warm it up, takes the edge off somewhat.

Cheers,
D80

 

[manticle]

Have you used those hops in a similar way before?

 

[danestead]

Is it astringency you are getting? I was getting astringency in pretty much all of my brews. I was screwing around with water too much and since backing right off on the water side of things, my brews have improved immensely. There was a batch of IIPA I brewed recently, which was very astringent post dry hopping, that I tipped. I dry hopped it after it had reached FG and after it was taken off the yeast. My current thoughts are that because the yeast had already finished it's job, the harsh astringency of raw hops (try eat some one day, you'll know what I mean) was carried over into the beer. My thinking is that the magic of yeast , whilst active, does wonderful things to astringency, and that dry hopping should occur just prior to FG to let that magic take place. I do want to have a chat with some pro brewers to see if my theory is correct though - and see how they do it.

 

[Zorco]

If cold crashing my opinion is that it should be air tight so it doesn't draw in any air.
That also means the walls of a plastic fermenter will cave in when it contracts.
Added 2c I made Stainless Steal plugs that fit tight in the airlock grommet. 30mm long 10mm thick stainless round rod rounded off one end and polished. Oh the things we do....

Top idea,

I misplaced one of my thermowells and plugged the second grommet with a 12mm barb with a stainless cap on the end. Not as elegant due to all the angles and threads.

I wish I had a lathe. Men have lathes.

 

[TheWiggman]

Actually fair point by manticle, welly commented that he's having bitterness issues with his beers. Maybe this is what we should be discussing rather than a highly questionable web post?
What's your process welly2, are there specific beers you are getting the issue with?

 

[Zorco]

There have been a couple of pointers to the water. How could this influence bitterness?

 

[Frothy1]

There have been a couple of pointers to the water. How could this influence bitterness?

Chloride / Sulfate ratio.

Too much sulfate may enhances bitterness.

 

[danestead]

There have been a couple of pointers to the water. How could this influence bitterness?

I was using RO/DI water, then adding various combinations of salts to end up with a predetermined water profile. The salts I was using were some, or all of the following: Calcium Chloride and Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Chalk and Bicarbonate of Soda. When changing to RO (not RO/DI) water, mixed with various percentages of Perth tap water, my astringency (as opposed to bitterness) issues largely disappeared. Why? I don't know for sure; however the positive change has been noted by myself, and others.

 

[rude]

I was using Melville water high in sodium ,chloride I backed right off on the hops
because of the bitterness harshness
A English bitter I was going from 32 IBU to 25

Since R,O water use beers have been coming out malty can actually taste the yeasts flavours,
have had to readjust hop schedule where Im thinking maybe a touch more than 32 IBUs

It may have been astringency from high PH ? but it has made a big difference
Also not as dry after a session
Before I'de wake up dry as a Nuns nasty

Note I'm a no chiller & have been just hopping in the kettle lately but have cubed hopped before

 

[Danscraftbeer]

How one questionable harsh flavour turns into a can of worms. :lol:

Notes, notes, take notes etc, more notes, and take more notes and judge of your own beers.

My beers are more malty these days but with a bitter enough backbone to them as well. On tap 20 days from grain to brain.
I need more kegs for longer conditioning.