GUTEN

[mynameisrodney]

 

[goatchop41]

I bent up a copper pipe and drilled holes through it to use for recirculation during the mash. It sinks slightly into the grain bed but not much. It can easily be moved to the side to stir, but doesn't drill right down to the bottom like when I just use the hose that came with it. Seemed to work well.

My question with these sort of mods is usually "why?".
We homebrewers seem to have some sort of innate need to complicate things unnecessarily. The unit literally comes with a top plate which does the exact same thing - to stop the recirc. from drilling in to the grain bed, and help to distribute the recirc. + sparge water - so does this mod really do anything significant enough to warrant the time and energy procuring/making it?

 

[mynameisrodney]

Because I can still stir the mash with this in.

Also even when using the top plate, I find that the hose ends up just spraying the wort against one wall.

 

[Ballaratguy]

Mine doesn’t and that’s with the pump running flat out
I leave the top screen off for about 1/4 hour to stir the mash then the top screen goes on. (I’ve only just started to use it too)

 

[mynameisrodney]

So far I've only done single batches in the 70L guten while I get used to it. Maybe the reduced head height makes the flow faster? Maybe when I start doing double batches I'll find I don't use this. In any case, I'm not bothered. I think the time I spent making it is being heavily overestimated. I've spent more time discussing it now than I did making it haha.

 

[BrewLizard]

Reading this thread with keen interest. I've just taken the plunge and ordered a 40L Guten, and subsequently read all 107 pages!

I'm expecting a drop in efficiency (currently 85% with BIAB), but hoping the convenience and temp control will be worth it.

Anyone doing small (8.5–9.5 L) batches? I'm weighing up whether to do a small sparge (maybe 2 L) vs. no sparge at all.

 

[duncbrewer]

Reading this thread with keen interest. I've just taken the plunge and ordered a 40L Guten, and subsequently read all 107 pages!

I'm expecting a drop in efficiency (currently 85% with BIAB), but hoping the convenience and temp control will be worth it.

Anyone doing small (8.5–9.5 L) batches? I'm weighing up whether to do a small sparge (maybe 2 L) vs. no sparge at all.

I did a 10 litre batch in the Robobrew but it was a barley wine so it was a full malt pipe and then I parti gyled so no regular half batch evidence for you.

 

[mynameisrodney]

I think I'm 6 brews in with mine now. Efficiency is down slightly from my BIAB, but way more consistent. Last 3 have been within a few percent of each other. Happy to take the small efficiency hit for improved consistency.

 

[MHB]

Rodney, have a look at your grain crush. You should not be seeing a loss of efficiency with a 1V recirculating system. The main factors that would see a drop are -

The grain bed not being permeable enough, you do need to get a lot more of the recirculating wort going through the grist.
Elements being too hot and killing of some of your enzymes. If you have the controllable power element try turning it down to just enough to hold temp during rests.

Ok mine is a Braumeister but I would be seriously ticked off if efficiency in the fermenter (overall efficiency) was less than low to mid 80's (usually around 84%).
Mark

 

[BrewLizard]

Mark, how about lauter efficiency? It seems you can recover a lot of liquid with BIAB by squeezing, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to do this with the all-in-one systems without risk of damage to your malt pipe.

 

[MHB]

I mostly do full volume brewing for normal gravity beers. Then let the malt pipe drain while the wort heats to a boil.
Which is why I think the issues are more to do with grain bed permeability and possabilly element sizing.
There have been a few discussions about L:G and extract (Ha found it here). Note that the numbers there are all a bit lowball, assumes 0.9L/kg of grist retained and a CGAI of 75%, normally retain a little less and have a slightly higher yield potential to so end up getting a bit more than indicated.
Pouring a little hot treated water through the grist after lifting the malt pipe will get some extra. Not really a sparge, just rinsing some of the extract rich wort from between the grain, a sparge would be a lot slower.
Then again what you use for your sparge has to come out of your total water budget so you get a little lower yield... starts getting very circular. For a commercial brewer were fractions of a percent add up it might be worth spending the extra 90-120 minutes they take to sparge properly, for a home brewer I find if you have a big enough pot going all in or very close to, works better and is definitely a lot faster.

If you aren’t getting first running gravities close to or even slightly better than indicated, you need to look at why.
I think the first two places to look would be as above your crush and how heat is being applied.
I'll probably get flamed but the design quality of your system includes how well wort is recirculated and how heat is applied. I think the Braumeister wins hands down in terms of design and build quality and are worth the extra cost, but that's a personal opinion.
If you do everything the same in terms of water chemistry and all that I can’t see how a recirculating 1V system should be at least the equal of BIAB.
Mark

 

[mynameisrodney]

More than happy to get advice on how to improve.

• My mill gap is set to 0.85mm.
• I've been using 5% rice hulls in each batch.
• Power is set to 1200W during the mash.
• Mash thickness is set to 3.5 L/kg in brewfather. As I understand it is the thickness in the malt pipe, there is ~9L water in the recoverable deadspace too. Last brew would have been 4.6L/kg including that.
• Timing is mash in. Wait 15min before turning pump on. Stir top half or so of mash after 30min. Mash for 60-120 min depending on timing with kids, then 3kW to mashout of 77. Pull the malt pipe and sparge by slowing pouring water over top screen with a jug. Allow to drain while temp comes up to boil or until preboil volume is reached.
• Grain absorption has been about 1-1.1 L/kg for me.
• Last 3 batches were 76%, 75%, 77% brewhouse efficiency.
• BIAB I occasionally got in the high 80s, but often 70ish too, so much less predictable for me. That said, I have been exclusively crushing my own base malt since getting the Guten, whereas previously I would crush some batches myself, others I would buy pre-crushed from various vendors. So Maybe thats more of the source of the variation.

Biggest issue I had on the weekend was safety, not efficiency related. I didnt realise the hose connector on the outlet hose of my chiller had one of those autostop plugs in it. The plug deformed due to the hot water and started cutting in and out, then while I was trying to figure out what was blocked the water hammer blew the hose off the chiller and I got a jet of hot water onto my upper thigh. Got a decent patch of scalded skin. Could have been worse though ~15cm to the side and I would have had a boiled johnson.

 

[hopnotic]

My Guten 70 is now integrated with Brewfather and SmartPID!

I transferred a recipe and was able to control the pump and heating elements from BF. Absolutely stoked.

Something weird going on with the reported temperature (it's not that cold in Melbourne tonight), might be PID calibration or something like that.

A few photos...

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

My Guten 70 is now integrated with Brewfather and SmartPID!

I transferred a recipe and was able to control the pump and heating elements from BF. Absolutely stoked.

Something weird going on with the reported temperature (it's not that cold in Melbourne tonight), might be PID calibration or something like that.

A few photos...

View attachment 120720

View attachment 120723

View attachment 120721

View attachment 120722

Check your temp probe connection. It's really fiddly and if it's not connected properly it will read weird.

 

[duncbrewer]

My Guten 70 is now integrated with Brewfather and SmartPID!

Have to say that looks awesome, I've been keeping an eye on the PID for this for a while. Would love to hear a few more brew updates.
Any potential to control the pump flow rate via an electronic valve? Then I wouldn't need to keep adjusting the flow rate during the mash.
Although I find that the pump seems to be running flat out anyway from about middle mash.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Well here's the results from Sunday after 48h. It was my first double batch, split it between lallemand BRY97 and lallemand Kolsch. Kolsch is a bit of a slow starter. Looking forward to doing more split and double batches.

 

[hopnotic]

Have to say that looks awesome, I've been keeping an eye on the PID for this for a while. Would love to hear a few more brew updates.
Any potential to control the pump flow rate via an electronic valve? Then I wouldn't need to keep adjusting the flow rate during the mash.
Although I find that the pump seems to be running flat out anyway from about middle mash.

The pump is hooked up to one of the built-in relays in the SmartPID, so it's either on or off. There is a spare DC out that is designed to run say a fridge, so technically you could hook it up to a relay to drive a pump. I'm not sure how you would throttle it though, as it won't be governed by a temp sensor.

 

[Grmblz]

Cheap ghetto fix for liquid level control when using a pump:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...#79&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22scene%22%3A%2223416%22%7D

 

[BrewLizard]

Anyone still doing delayed starts on these? See @kadmium's post below.

I'm just doing a water-only run on mine to get the temps, boil-off, etc. dialled in. My basic auto program is this:

1. Heat strike 70°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
2. Mash at 67°C @ 300 W for 60 min [small batches]
3. Mash out at 76°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
4. Bring to boil at 99.9°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
5. Boil @ 100°C @ 1800 W for 60 min
6. Hop additions at 30, 15, 10, 5

However, after step 1, it just beeps continuously. I had to press start/stop to get it to move on to step 2.

This definitely seems like the behaviour you'd want for doughing in, so that you can tell it you're done and want it to countdown for the mash, but does this make delayed starts impossible?

Perhaps the firmware has changed on the latest model?

Edit: hmm, it goes from step 2 to step 3 automatically. I can also confirm it pauses before the boil (which is expected behaviour).

I have a series of steps on mine (70 strike, 67 mash, 76 MO) with 1 minute pauses in between with power varied. Never press button other than to go to boil from what I remember. Think it's for safety.

I would program it like this if I were you:

1. 5c @ 100w (8 hours or what ever you need)
2. Strike @ 2500w (1 minute)
3. Mash @ 1000w (60 or what ever)
4. Mash Out @ 2500w (1 minute)
5. Mash Out @ 1000w (10 m)
6. 99.5 @ 2500w (1 minute)
7. Boil @ 2000w (60 or what ever)

 

[duncbrewer]

Anyone still doing delayed starts on these? See @kadmium's post below.

I'm just doing a water-only run on mine to get the temps, boil-off, etc. dialled in. My basic auto program is this:

1. Heat strike 70°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
2. Mash at 67°C @ 300 W for 60 min [small batches]
3. Mash out at 76°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
4. Bring to boil at 99.9°C @ 2400 W for 1 min
5. Boil @ 100°C @ 1800 W for 60 min
6. Hop additions at 30, 15, 10, 5

However, after step 1, it just beeps continuously. I had to press start/stop to get it to move on to step 2.

This definitely seems like the behaviour you'd want for doughing in, so that you can tell it you're done and want it to countdown for the mash, but does this make delayed starts impossible?

Perhaps the firmware has changed on the latest model?

Edit: hmm, it goes from step 2 to step 3 automatically. I can also confirm it pauses before the boil (which is expected behaviour).

Roughly similar although I set to 3000 for 1 minute just below mash temp and then dough in during that minute and the heat going in seems to be about right for the mash temp. Mash with about 600 watts, then stepup to next temp ( if a step mash at about 2500) with 1 minute just below target temp and then back to 600w ( or mash out if that's the next temp). Then mash out and full power to raise to 100, less power during boil as lid on using condenser.

Have same issue of needing to press button to move to mash and the boil as you have.

I just set my watch timer for the hop additions.