Gushing bottles help!

[taeanbrewer]

I know of the gushers problem and when recently brewing a saison I bottled and carbonated half into the kegerator fridge at 18 degrees and they turned out fine. I put a few out at ambient temp (28-29) for over 2 weeks and all have gushed out of the bottle and reveal an off smell since I tried one first after the first week. Any hints as to why this happened? I thought ambient temp was fine for carbing?

 

[luggy]

They're probably all going to end up like that, the ones at ambient just got there quicker. Be careful if they're in glass

 

[Pogierob]

I'm certainly no expert, but if you open them and they smell bad AND are gushers...

VERY QUICKLY pop the tops off them ALL and pour them down the sink..

bottle bombs are not something to be taken lightly.

With an infection, you don't know how far the fermentation will go and there is a MASSIVE change they will go BOOM..

ditch it, ditch it NOW!!!

 

[MartinOC]

Are you USED TO working with saison yeasts? They're finicky beasts & can lull you into thinking your fermentation is finished, then take-off again a week or two later.

Can you provide details of what you did & for how long, what temperatures etc..etc...?

That "off" flavour could just be the phenolics & residual esters (these are normal for Saisons) that are now trapped in the bottles. Also, you may just not be used to the character that Saison yeasts produce (ie. phenolics etc.)? I may sound patronising here, but I don't know your experience with Saisons. I stand to be corrected.

If you haven't given it enough time to completely finish before bottling, then (as above), you're potentially looking at bottle-bombs.

Rather than ditching the whole batch, pull a few bottles out & chill them right-down as low as you can get (0*C would be good). Then take the crown seals off (carefully!) & let them de-gas for a while (the lower temperature makes this a slow-release procedure, rather than gushing). Then re-cap them & try another sample in a few days.

If they keep gushing after you've done that, then it's definitely a good idea to ditch the whole lot ASAP to avoid bottle-bombs.

You may (also) have a bottle infection despite all your best efforts (do you have a "ring of confidence" in the neck of the bottles at the liquid/air interface?).

It's hard to tell what your problem may be without knowing the full details of what/how you did.

 

[Yob]

Recipe details, final gravity?

 

[taeanbrewer]

Cheers for the replies!

Yeah I do like saisons store bought that is as it is the first time brewing one. have produced a hefe with esters too high due to the ferm temp.

I did use yeasts known to go crazy. Belle saison. Danster I think. I chilled to 2 Degrees for 4 days to kill off the yeast. I Ditched all the bottles kept at ambient temps. I think the yeast took off again. I fermented for 2 weeks. And also transfered t. Secondary for 4 days then racked.

1.058 OG 1.005 FG. Trying one from the kegerator I put in the fridge yesterday. It seems so different. No over the top esters and still has a slight funky saison and quite balanced.

 

[luggy]

Crash chilling your beer won't kill yeast, it will just go dormant. You have a problem somewhere in your process

 

[MartinOC]

As pointed-out above, they're probably all going to end-up that way, the ambient-carbed ones just got there quicker. Maybe you over-primed the bottles & the yeast has taken-off again (just quicker in the ambient-carbed ones). The FG of 1005 is still kinda high for a Saison.

Keep trying them from time to time & if you get to a point where they all start to gush, even when chilled, it's a good idea to ditch the rest rather than risk an explosion.

Good luck with it!

 

[Dae Tripper]

Ok now you have me scared. I just got my first Saison cold crashing now, the particulars are,

Brewed 28-1-15 OG 1050 Extract, Light and Wheat, 600g Dex, 500g Crystal grain.
5-2-15 SG 1006
9-2-15 SG 1006

The big question is it done? Should I take it out of the fridge and wait longer? Help, I don't want gushers too...

 

[Yeastfridge]

You may (also) have a bottle infection despite all your best efforts (do you have a "ring of confidence" in the neck of the bottles at the liquid/air interface?).

That said, I always get a little ring of yeast with Wyeast French Saison 3711 in the neck of the bottles. Never overcarbed but always a little ring. Funny, lovely yeast. I've brewed a lot of saisons this summer...

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

That said, I always get a little ring of yeast with Wyeast French Saison 3711 in the neck of the bottles. Never overcarbed but always a little ring. Funny, lovely yeast. I've brewed a lot of saisons this summer...

My WLP300 hefes get this too. They carb pretty hard and fast.

 

[MartinOC]

Ok now you have me scared. I just got my first Saison cold crashing now, the particulars are,

Brewed 28-1-15 OG 1050 Extract, Light and Wheat, 600g Dex, 500g Crystal grain.
5-2-15 SG 1006
9-2-15 SG 1006

The big question is it done? Should I take it out of the fridge and wait longer? Help, I don't want gushers too...

Mate, this exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Saison yeasts can make you think they're done, then take-off again.

What yeast did you use & how warm did you ferment at? 1050-1006 in the space of a week strikes me that you've been suckered by that ye(be)ast. 1002 would be a reasonable expectation with some of them, if not lower.

If you don't want gushers, take it out of the fridge & just leave it for another week or two at ambient temps to see if it takes-off again. No harm done with this regime & much better than potential gushers or bottle-bombs.

 

[paulyman]

I had a stuck ferment at 1.030 on an IPA recently that I managed to recognise and deal with thanks to a pointer to try a forced ferment test. From now on, if I'm brewing something new and not quite sure it is truly finished I will be running a forced ferment test. It is so easy and gives you peace of mind.

*edit - should point out I knew my brew wasn't finished, just wasn't sure the yeast were still alive and kicking or whether I needed to pitch a fresh batch. The test still works though.

 

[Pogierob]

I had a stuck ferment at 1.030 on an IPA recently that I managed to recognise and deal with thanks to a pointer to try a forced ferment test. From now on, if I'm brewing something new and not quite sure it is truly finished I will be running a forced ferment test. It is so easy and gives you peace of mind.

*edit - should point out I knew my brew wasn't finished, just wasn't sure the yeast were still alive and kicking or whether I needed to pitch a fresh batch. The test still works though.

any chance you could describe the process of a "forced ferment"?

 

[Dae Tripper]

Thanks guys, out of the fridge it will come. I used Danstar Belle with a heat belt to keep over 25c. Was 28c on my last hydro.

How does this force ferment work?

 

[paulyman]

any chance you could describe the process of a "forced ferment"?

For mine, I took a couple of hundred mL of wort in a sanitised container added a packet of yeast ( I actually only had bread yeast on hand), covered the lid with some al foil and shook the s**t out of it every hour or so. Left it for 2-3 days then checked the gravity.

Not sure if that is best practice, but it gave me the info I required (it wasn't done).

Edit - I have a feeling the actual idea is to use the same yeast.

 

[MartinOC]

A forced fermentation test (ie. Limit of Attenuation) is only viable for the wort/yeast combo. you're using it on. Adding another yeast won't give you anything useful.

Take a few hundred ml (or at least enough to do a SG test on) of the PITCHED WORT. Keep it at ~27C & aerate it as much as possible (stir-plate is ideal) until all activity stops. Then take a gravity reading. It should give you the absolute minimum (ie. terminal) gravity that your wort/yeast combo. can possibly reach.

You can use that reading to gauge where your main fermentation is, compared to the absolute limit of what's possible.

'Hope that helps!

 

[paulyman]

If the yeast has a lower attenuation than the yeast you are currently using and it dropped the SG wouldn't that be useful? (Honest question).

 

[MartinOC]

If the yeast has a lower attenuation than the yeast you are currently using and it dropped the SG wouldn't that be useful? (Honest question).

Was your question directed to me? If so, I don't understand your question. Which yeast? Care to expand?

I'm just about to go to bed, so reply & I'll pick this up again in the morning.

 

[paulyman]

Was your question directed to me? If so, I don't understand your question. Which yeast? Care to expand?

I'm just about to go to bed, so reply & I'll pick this up again in the morning.

Yeah Martin,

I was just thinking that a saison with Belle Saison should have an apparent attenuation of 80-90%+ while say US-05 should have 70-80%. So if your saison seems to stall and all you have on hand is us-05 and the forced ferment drops in SG then clearly the saison isn't finished as the belle should have even more left in it than the us05?

Having time to think about it, I've realised that even if I'm not thinking about this all wrong, it is a silly thing to do. If the SG doesn't drop I've wasted a us05 and proven nothing. I'll make sure if I do it in the future to use the same yeast.