Grey Import Beers

[Kieren]

Found this article while researching beers to buy from an online beer shop

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/11/grey-i...-the-new-black/

News to me.

It seems a lot of the beers I have bought in the past and also on my current shopping list are "grey imports" - beers with unauthorised distribution into Australia. It brings up a small quandary - should I keep buying these grey imports, knowing the brewers disapprove of there beers being sold here without their control and their guarantee that their beer has been shipped and handled with care - or keep buying them - knowing the beer maybe past its best by date, shipped and handled poorly and against the wishes of the brewer?

I haven't had many bad experiences with imported beers yet, I know they probably pale in comparison to a fresh sample straight from the brewery, this has to be expected. Just had a Stone Smoked Porter tonight and it was great. In fact, I have had more domestic bottled beers that I was disappointed in, whether this was due to them being poorly packaged or being mishandled I don't know.

I know I will keep buying the odd unauthorised beer here and there, until I can get to the States (or where ever the beer has come from) I need to get my fix of new and exciting beers from somewhere. If I get a bad beer that is old or been handled poorly then them's the breaks and I will not necessarily think bad of of the brewery.

At least Rogue have an official distribution

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/grey-market-imports/

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Interesting topic. I didn't realise that this was going on until I spoke to Ross from Craftbrewer. I mentioned how a beer bought from him in July (5am Saint) was amazing and the same beer bought from a newly established shop just recently was far from the same. He brought up this exact discussion and I am starting to see why Sierra Nevada don't send beers over for this very reason.

 

[Kieren]

I had a Sierra Nevada Pale along time ago and thought it was ok (iirc) but not outstanding as I had expected. My beer education was pretty limited then but I have heard this is a beer that should only be drunk fresh. More recently I have had their Celebration Ale which I thought was amazing and their Torpedo which was good too but not as nice as the Celebration ale. Will get to the US one day...

 

[mika]

I figure even average beer is better than no beer.
Obviously my experience of the beer if bad is not publicised. You've gotta take it's likely origins and thus transport into account. But I'd much rather have the option of trying it, even if it gives only a hint of what the beer is truly meant to be like.

 

[hoohaaman]

I had a Sierra Nevada Pale along time ago and thought it was ok (iirc) but not outstanding as I had expected. My beer education was pretty limited then but I have heard this is a beer that should only be drunk fresh. More recently I have had their Celebration Ale which I thought was amazing and their Torpedo which was good too but not as nice as the Celebration ale. Will get to the US one day...

Must agree Celebration Ale is a cracker.On tap is superb,if only their food was half as good

 

[barfridge]

What's this 'against the wishes of the brewer' nonsense? Any brewer just wants his beer sold, and people to enjoy it.

Sounds more like the bleating of an importer seeing some competition.

 

[felten]

not sure about that, some of the American micros aren't even selling beer outside of a their own local states because they can't guarantee the quality.

 

[bconnery]

What's this 'against the wishes of the brewer' nonsense? Any brewer just wants his beer sold, and people to enjoy it.

Sounds more like the bleating of an importer seeing some competition.

Actually a number of American brewers are specifically calling for the boycott of grey imports. If people are trying a brewers product that has been transported in unrefridgerated containers across a number of oceans, grey imports often come to us via Europe, then it isn't going to be in the best of condition and could, and in fact does, lead to negative opinions about the beer

 

[jayse]

I think there maybe is a little bit of getting up on your high horse, if that is the right expression, I mean some people feel they need to openly portray a squeaky clean imagine on the outside, but really if these same people have a chance to try some new imperial yak spit and a goat sperm ale from some strange american brewery then most will take up the chance, even those that on the outside are trying their best to promote that it is wrong.

I would be the same, if I have a chance then I will try it, in the case of snpa I have always been pretty safe in saying maybe that is not quite as good as it should be but I was glad to have the chance to try.

Not sure if Matt from brewnews posts on AHB, I don't know him and I haven't posted to any of the other forums/blogs etc running with this, have not even read any of the replies, but I am sure if you popped around his house with a bottle of said yak spit ale will he and others with similiar publicly outspoken things said against it knocked that beer back. I don't think so.

What barfridge said about being more of a gripe at a competor might not be that far of, I don't know. Interesting to read the taphouse don't have a stand against it and posted that they have thought long and hard about it and possibly oneday will sell these grey imports. I think in the end it will come down to what the customers want and will buy moreso then what the breweries don't want.

Interesting topic and I don't mean any disrespect or offense to brewnews by suggestion it sounds a little getting up on your high horse simply to be seen to being doing the right thing, whilst sitting at home sipping on some grey import hoping no one catchs you.

I do love the passion but maybe I am questioning how genuniue the reasons are for this, saying that I guess I could be seen as calling those involved posers, I am sure that is not the case either.

So what have I got to add, nothing just a couple digs based on very little, Oh well.

Cheers
Jayse

 

[O'Henry]

I don't buy beers that I know are grey. Pisses me off. Drink local or legit imports. It's not like there is a shortage of beer. Brew Dog, Rogue, Mikkeller, Nogne O are all good quality OS breweries with an importer (the same one I think).

Hopefully the grey imports will lead to breweries wanting to set up importing to avoid bad quality.

 

[jbowers]

Grey imports have been the best imported beers I've had. No question. Compare green flash WCIPA to anything by rogue or anderson valley.

 

[MarkBastard]

[quote name='O'Henry' post='707531' date='Nov 19 2010, 10:22 AM']Hopefully the grey imports will lead to breweries wanting to set up importing to avoid bad quality.[/quote]

Yep.

IMO if the demand is clearly there then someone will service that demand (doesn't matter if we're talking about boutique beers or drugs or anything).

So if the demand is there you can't blame someone for servicing it. The breweries now are in the position where they need to either accept this or they need to provide a better alternative.

The one option they don't have is just simply banning the imports. That's ridiculous.

 

[Kirko]

Hey Jayse - no offence taken...but to answer:
1) Yeah, I kinda have gotten on my high horse about it. It's been an issue around for a while that I have ignored until this week when I ran a story about Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Neither the guy who wrote it nor I realised SNPA was here against their wishes until I approached them about the article and was told they didn't like their beers being sold down here. I thought that was an interesting article and so contacted some of the online stores selling it. One in particularly initially claimed that it was here legitimately, until I confronted him with the email. As it went back and forth, every claim he made about some of their imports was demonstrably false. Needless to say he refused to be interviewed or speak publicly. His approach pissed me off and I realised if that was the crap he was telling me, what was he telling his customers. When most people don't realise that these beers aren't here against the brewers wishes and that when they are they come and even longer, more damaging route to get here.

I took up the issue because there are a lot of guys like Kieran who say"I had a Sierra Nevada Pale along time ago and thought it was ok (iirc) but not outstanding as I had expected."

SNPA is a world famous beer. If people that aren't homebrewers or afficiandos see it and say "wow, I've heard about that" and try it and are disappointed because it's stale they say, "What's all the fuss about with craft beer?" That hurts beer, it hurts local brewers ane all beer lovers suffer for that.

The other thing about the retailers attitude was that they will do it anyway, even if they become available - they also stock parallel versions of beers that are here legitimately because they're cheaper because they haven't (generally) been looked after. The good guys in the industry don't want to sell them but have to compete against the dodgy ones and if we support the dodgy ones the good guys have to do it too. So I said don't buy them. They good guys won't care if you stop buying Stone.

2) I have two beer fridges at home. You're welcome to come over and have a beer. There is not a Stone or DFH beer to be seen. The only times I tried these beers was in the States or when they have flown home in someone's hand luggage...not sure if's that's bad? I should have asked Greg Koch that! If I do have something it might be a parallel imported Chimay...but only because it is nearly impossible to tel which is which. I will get on my highhorse about that too!

3) Have a listen to Greg Koch's point of view (it's going up soon on Brews News). Let me know what you think afterwards.

Matt

I think there maybe is a little bit of getting up on your high horse, if that is the right expression, I mean some people feel they need to openly portray a squeaky clean imagine on the outside, but really if these same people have a chance to try some new imperial yak spit and a goat sperm ale from some strange american brewery then most will take up the chance, even those that on the outside are trying their best to promote that it is wrong.

I would be the same, if I have a chance then I will try it, in the case of snpa I have always been pretty safe in saying maybe that is not quite as good as it should be but I was glad to have the chance to try.

Not sure if Matt from brewnews posts on AHB, I don't know him and I haven't posted to any of the other forums/blogs etc running with this, have not even read any of the replies, but I am sure if you popped around his house with a bottle of said yak spit ale will he and others with similiar publicly outspoken things said against it knocked that beer back. I don't think so.

What barfridge said about being more of a gripe at a competor might not be that far of, I don't know. Interesting to read the taphouse don't have a stand against it and posted that they have thought long and hard about it and possibly oneday will sell these grey imports. I think in the end it will come down to what the customers want and will buy moreso then what the breweries don't want.

Interesting topic and I don't mean any disrespect or offense to brewnews by suggestion it sounds a little getting up on your high horse simply to be seen to being doing the right thing, whilst sitting at home sipping on some grey import hoping no one catchs you.

I do love the passion but maybe I am questioning how genuniue the reasons are for this, saying that I guess I could be seen as calling those involved posers, I am sure that is not the case either.

So what have I got to add, nothing just a couple digs based on very little, Oh well.

Cheers
Jayse

 

[Kirko]

Don't create the demand?

Yep.

IMO if the demand is clearly there then someone will service that demand (doesn't matter if we're talking about boutique beers or drugs or anything).

So if the demand is there you can't blame someone for servicing it. The breweries now are in the position where they need to either accept this or they need to provide a better alternative.

The one option they don't have is just simply banning the imports. That's ridiculous.

 

[DanRayner]

In a big (diverse) beer shop like Plonk and I would assume Purvis, Ackland, Platinum - a huge majority of the imports are "grey" just not actively pursued by the original brewer (like SNPA, Stone and Dogfish).

They are the imports that come in when an Aussie importer goes over to Europe and buys a large, diverse range of beers in one go.

Any little, quirky, interesting Belgian or British beer that is hard to find in "normal bottle shops" are most likely grey. But it is unlikely that the breweries know or even care that their product are on the other side of the world. I'm talking about beers like: Achel Trappist, Leffe (Brune & Tripel), Boon, Rodenbach, St Feuillien (sp?), Theakston Old Peculiar.

Only those bigger or regular or more common brands you see on a more regular basis have legitimate distribution here in Australia. For instance from Germany: Weihensephaner, Franziskaner, Paulaner and Schoefferhofer. Belgium: Chimay, Leffe (but only Blonde & Radieusse from CUB), Duvel, Timmermans, Lindemans. Britain: St Peter's, Timothy Taylor, Wells & Youngs, Fullers, Sam Smith's.

Without these grey imports we just wouldn't get the diversity that we see in some of our bottlo's. Nor would the larger, legit importers get the cajones to go through months of negotiations with breweries overseas to secure distribution rights.

I'm not sure I really agree with some of these importers then undercutting the "official" importers with parallel imports. Then you are able to see the difference in quality. If you wanted to check out how different the same beer can be from two different importers look for St Peter's - Phoenix is the official importer and they have been pretty great in the past with their St Peter's products. Compare a bottle from them with a bottle from another importer - I won't say who, I don't want to get into too much strife - but I've some terribly cloudy, lightstruck batches of St Peter's from other importers.

cheers,

D

 

[jayse]

Thanks for the reply Matt.

You have a great argument of course and I think its great what your trying to achieve and as such I was proberly out of line trying to second guess your motives and ideals.

I esspecially like the point you made 'if thats what he's telling me then whats he telling his customers' and also the point of someone new to craft beer saying "What's all the fuss about with craft beer?" That hurts beer, that part is pretty close to my heart but there is also local microbrews out there which are down right shit and give that same bad name to the good microbrewers. Thats a different arguement again though I guess and all we can do is, as your doing, educate people so they know what to look for and what to steer away from.

Keep up the good work.

 

[MarkBastard]

Don't create the demand?

That doesn't help with demand that already exists, but either way they would have had a hard time doing that due to world of mouth and the Internet.

 

[Kirko]

<Nor would the larger, legit importers get the cajones to go through months of negotiations with breweries overseas to secure distribution rights.>

Not sure I agree with that one. As for grey imports generally - I'm sure many breweries don't care and that wasn't the issue I raised initially. But I think when breweries do care you should respect their wishes.

The wider issue with grey imports is that often - and it is worst at the margins - the beers are already old when they get here because of the methods used to get them here. I don't think drinking a diverse range of spoiled beer is better than drinking a narrower range of good beer.

As for the parallel issue, I agree with you. I also want to add a list of legitimate distributors and their beers to the campaign because if you're going to buy imported beer that is the best chace you are going to have for better quality.

The good retailers buy good beer and educate their customers. They are the majority. The others do incredible damage to the industry.

In a big (diverse) beer shop like Plonk and I would assume Purvis, Ackland, Platinum - a huge majority of the imports are "grey" just not actively pursued by the original brewer (like SNPA, Stone and Dogfish).

They are the imports that come in when an Aussie importer goes over to Europe and buys a large, diverse range of beers in one go.

Any little, quirky, interesting Belgian or British beer that is hard to find in "normal bottle shops" are most likely grey. But it is unlikely that the breweries know or even care that their product are on the other side of the world. I'm talking about beers like: Achel Trappist, Leffe (Brune & Tripel), Boon, Rodenbach, St Feuillien (sp?), Theakston Old Peculiar.

Only those bigger or regular or more common brands you see on a more regular basis have legitimate distribution here in Australia. For instance from Germany: Weihensephaner, Franziskaner, Paulaner and Schoefferhofer. Belgium: Chimay, Leffe (but only Blonde & Radieusse from CUB), Duvel, Timmermans, Lindemans. Britain: St Peter's, Timothy Taylor, Wells & Youngs, Fullers, Sam Smith's.

Without these grey imports we just wouldn't get the diversity that we see in some of our bottlo's. Nor would the larger, legit importers get the cajones to go through months of negotiations with breweries overseas to secure distribution rights.

I'm not sure I really agree with some of these importers then undercutting the "official" importers with parallel imports. Then you are able to see the difference in quality. If you wanted to check out how different the same beer can be from two different importers look for St Peter's - Phoenix is the official importer and they have been pretty great in the past with their St Peter's products. Compare a bottle from them with a bottle from another importer - I won't say who, I don't want to get into too much strife - but I've some terribly cloudy, lightstruck batches of St Peter's from other importers.

cheers,

D

 

[Kirko]

You can make your own choice...that's enough.

That doesn't help with demand that already exists, but either way they would have had a hard time doing that due to world of mouth and the Internet.

 

[Kirko]

Listen to Greg Koch explain why he doesn't want you to drink his beer and see what you think....
http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/11/greg-k...y-stone-please/