Grey Import Beers

[Kieren]

Matt,

Are there any online beer shops that you recommend?

 

[Kirko]

I'd hesitate to recommend anyone because I don't use them very often. All I can say is that I have purchased in the past from IBD and always been pleased, and am impressed with SlowBeers's contribution to the debate.

Matt,

Are there any online beer shops that you recommend?

 

[DanRayner]

<Nor would the larger, legit importers get the cajones to go through months of negotiations with breweries overseas to secure distribution rights.>

Not sure I agree with that one. As for grey imports generally - I'm sure many breweries don't care and that wasn't the issue I raised initially. But I think when breweries do care you should respect their wishes.

The wider issue with grey imports is that often - and it is worst at the margins - the beers are already old when they get here because of the methods used to get them here. I don't think drinking a diverse range of spoiled beer is better than drinking a narrower range of good beer.

As for the parallel issue, I agree with you. I also want to add a list of legitimate distributors and their beers to the campaign because if you're going to buy imported beer that is the best chace you are going to have for better quality.

The good retailers buy good beer and educate their customers. They are the majority. The others do incredible damage to the industry.

I agree that we should probably avoid grey beers where there is an official importer instead or when the brewer has specifically asked us (Oz) not to buy them cos they are grey.

But I'm not certain that refridgerated shipping is the best excuse as to why we should only but from the official importers. I'd be interested to see how 'official' importers of Chimay (Beer Importers & Distributors), Franziskaner (German Beverage Imports), Shoefferhofer (Beach Avenue Wholesalers) or Weihenstephaner (Phoenix) actually do import their beers from Europe - whether or not official distributors actually ship them in refridgerated containers.

I have an inkling suspicion that they don't - cos none of them are shipped across the country in refridgerated trucks and most end up being a lot cheaper than equivalent quality craft brews from the US like Rogue (Innspire Dave - top bloke) that we know are shipped in cooled containers. And I bet that it really doesn't make too much difference 80% of the time.

I have taken delivery of Leffe Blonde, Carslberg Elephant and Hoegaarden Witbier from Fosters in the (recent) past when they have been loaded on to the back of an open-tray ute in the middle of a hot summer day - and this is the 'official' importer of these beers. I told them I would only take delivery early in the morning but who knows how they are treated before we (the consumer and the retailer) sees them?

And having drunk my fair share of official and unofficial imports (it's been pretty much all of Plonk's 800 beers) the vast majority of both have been unspoiled. Comparatively very few beers have been spoiled and I from my recollection they weren't predominately grey imports that were spoiled - I've had bad beers from both kinds of imports. So while I look for official importers where I can and will avoid purchasing grey imports where the brewer has asked Australia not to purchase I would probably continue to purchase from the importers (who are often both official and grey - at the same time) who I know and trust (like the ones above).

 

[DanRayner]

Hey - cheers for the info and replies Matt - see you on another forum sometime to discuss this again?

 

[Kirko]

As this issue has evolved, it has become more about the care for beer.

Have just had a good chat with Leif from Phoenix (IBD) and he's spot on - grey isn't automatically bad. Good people look after their beer regardless - though they don't seem to bring in the ones that the brewer specifically doesn't want in and stop if asked.

The best thing about the debate has been the focus it has put on beer quality. If people know what spoiled beer is and stop drinking it, it puts pressure on everyone - especially the big guys whole deliver in tryback utes in the hot sun - to look after their beer, which raises the standard everywhere.

I think Stone Greg nailed it today.

I agree that we should probably avoid grey beers where there is an official importer instead or when the brewer has specifically asked us (Oz) not to buy them cos they are grey.

But I'm not certain that refridgerated shipping is the best excuse as to why we should only but from the official importers. I'd be interested to see how 'official' importers of Chimay (Beer Importers & Distributors), Franziskaner (German Beverage Imports), Shoefferhofer (Beach Avenue Wholesalers) or Weihenstephaner (Phoenix) actually do import their beers from Europe - whether or not official distributors actually ship them in refridgerated containers.

I have an inkling suspicion that they don't - cos none of them are shipped across the country in refridgerated trucks and most end up being a lot cheaper than equivalent quality craft brews from the US like Rogue (Innspire Dave - top bloke) that we know are shipped in cooled containers. And I bet that it really doesn't make too much difference 80% of the time.

I have taken delivery of Leffe Blonde, Carslberg Elephant and Hoegaarden Witbier from Fosters in the (recent) past when they have been loaded on to the back of an open-tray ute in the middle of a hot summer day - and this is the 'official' importer of these beers. I told them I would only take delivery early in the morning but who knows how they are treated before we (the consumer and the retailer) sees them?

And having drunk my fair share of official and unofficial imports (it's been pretty much all of Plonk's 800 beers) the vast majority of both have been unspoiled. Comparatively very few beers have been spoiled and I from my recollection they weren't predominately grey imports that were spoiled - I've had bad beers from both kinds of imports. So while I look for official importers where I can and will avoid purchasing grey imports where the brewer has asked Australia not to purchase I would probably continue to purchase from the importers (who are often both official and grey - at the same time) who I know and trust (like the ones above).

 

[eamonnfoley]

I agree that we should probably avoid grey beers where there is an official importer instead or when the brewer has specifically asked us (Oz) not to buy them cos they are grey.

But I'm not certain that refridgerated shipping is the best excuse as to why we should only but from the official importers. I'd be interested to see how 'official' importers of Chimay (Beer Importers & Distributors), Franziskaner (German Beverage Imports), Shoefferhofer (Beach Avenue Wholesalers) or Weihenstephaner (Phoenix) actually do import their beers from Europe - whether or not official distributors actually ship them in refridgerated containers.

I have an inkling suspicion that they don't - cos none of them are shipped across the country in refridgerated trucks and most end up being a lot cheaper than equivalent quality craft brews from the US like Rogue (Innspire Dave - top bloke) that we know are shipped in cooled containers. And I bet that it really doesn't make too much difference 80% of the time.

I have taken delivery of Leffe Blonde, Carslberg Elephant and Hoegaarden Witbier from Fosters in the (recent) past when they have been loaded on to the back of an open-tray ute in the middle of a hot summer day - and this is the 'official' importer of these beers. I told them I would only take delivery early in the morning but who knows how they are treated before we (the consumer and the retailer) sees them?

And having drunk my fair share of official and unofficial imports (it's been pretty much all of Plonk's 800 beers) the vast majority of both have been unspoiled. Comparatively very few beers have been spoiled and I from my recollection they weren't predominately grey imports that were spoiled - I've had bad beers from both kinds of imports. So while I look for official importers where I can and will avoid purchasing grey imports where the brewer has asked Australia not to purchase I would probably continue to purchase from the importers (who are often both official and grey - at the same time) who I know and trust (like the ones above).

You could put your life on the fact that they are not imported in refrigerated containers.

I just hate the lottery of buying imported beers. Try and new one for $10 a bottle and risk a sink pour.

Lets face it, in general, beer is delicate and doesn't travel well! Fresh is best.

 

[Kirko]

Geez I wish everything had a >LIKE< button!

You could put your life on the fact that they are not imported in refrigerated containers.

I just hate the lottery of buying imported beers. Try and new one for $10 a bottle and risk a sink pour.

Lets face it, in general, beer is delicate and doesn't travel well! Fresh is best.

 

[DanRayner]

You could put your life on the fact that they are not imported in refrigerated containers.

I just hate the lottery of buying imported beers. Try and new one for $10 a bottle and risk a sink pour.

That's why you go to the good shops where people (like me) prefer not to lie right in someone's face when asked "is this a great beer?" when it isn't. I will instead reorder beer I like and discontinue beer that I don't (unless there's a great demand for it - like cheap Becks) but either way if someone asks me that and I think it's ordinary I'll often say "look, it's not the best example of the style" or "this one's a better beer" or (very rarely) "nope, it's god-awful; that's why it's in the 25% off bin!"

Lets face it, in general, beer is delicate and doesn't travel well! Fresh is best.

Dunno about that. Beer is boil-sterilised, has natural preservatives (hops&alcohol) and is (or should be) bottled under sterile conditions. As long as it doesn't sit too hot (ie: well above 20degC) for too long it should be fine. I've had some* rank locals and the most amazing imports (Duchesse de Bourgogne and Rochefort 10 are my current fav Belgians). It really does depend on the beer and how it's treated.

cheers!

Dan

* some, not many, but some.

 

[Kirko]

This whole debate has been great. It initially just started about respecting a brewers wishes for his product and then changed focus to beer care and quality...always a good thing.

Beyond respecting the wishes of a small number of brewers, 'grey' market beers are unavoidable and, for many, desirable. How good they are comes down to how good the importer and retailer (Thanks Dan).

But, to delves into the philosophy of beer a little, something that I have noticed about this debate is there are many beer lovers who have weighed in essentially saying, "but I want this beer, I should have it".

It's hard to avoid generalities in this debate, so apologies for doing it here, but I am sure that many of the beer lovers saying this would also be against the globalisation of beer by big business,electing to drink good craft beer for flavour, but also because it's small and brings in elements of the slow food ethos to support their choices. However, with slow food you shouldn't expect to be able to have strawberries, grapes and stone fruit 12 months a year as they are seasonal, good beer isn't something that can necessarily be available in 100 countries whenever it is wanted.

It is the "I want it" philosophy that led to the development flavourless tomato designed to withstand a 20 km/h collision and apples that are stored in gas for two years so that they can be sold when needed. Today it is hard to find anything else apart from them.

Expecting every great beer of the world to be on hand all of the time is a mindset that leads to compromises of quality that over time lead to bland and generic beer - and flavourless fruit and veg! I think supporting Greg's call supports a philosophy and approach to beer that I like. I think beer lovers should be leaders in this by drinking local, rather than be the ones further driving the concept that beer is international. But that's just me...

 

[manticle]

Generally agree with kirko. If someone offered me a grey beer (made with grey water?) I can't say I'd turn it down but I do appreciate the idea of a creator having some say over the context under which their product is appreciated.

Same with music, film, food etc.

 

[Bubba Q]

You could put your life on the fact that they are not imported in refrigerated containers.

A very safe bet, as a customs broker I have quite a few clients bring containers of beer in (mostly from europe) and they would always come in general containers rather than the refridgerated containers.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Just drinking a nice oxidised Timothy Taylor Landlord (legit import). All I'm tasting is caramel and sherry. Can easily go wrong with both legit or grey imports in my experience....
Lucky I have some Gage roads atomic pale ale and a carton of Macs hop rocker on hand to see me through to cracking the next keg of english summer ale (Wyeast 1469 & Sterling hops).