Got a RIMS Rocket....now I need help!

[jaywalkar]

Hi,

I just purchased a Blichmann RIMS Rocket which I am really keen to get up and running. Little did I know that my little 10A STC-1000 wouldn't be able to run the RIMS element and I am probably going to have to have a control box built.

This was intended to be used with a new two tiered system I am building, which also has a 2200W element in the HLT and a Chugger pump. I figure if I am going to need a control box for the RIMS Rocket, I might has well include 2 PID's so I can power the element to my HLT and also a switch for my pump.

I can wire up a simple STC-100 but I don't have a background in electronics so I am not sure where to start in building a control box. I am hoping to be referred onto someone who could build the controller for me, obviously I will pay for this. My only other alternative is to buy Blichamnn's Tower Of Power; which is designed to control the RIMS Rocket, however it retails for $900 which I am sure is grossly overpriced for a single PID temperature controller.

I have a 20A circuit I can run this from. The RIMS Rocket coil is rated 240V, 3500W and 14.6A. I am sure this info will be useful

Also, I have attached a picture of the power cord provided. I believe this is a L6-30P plug.

 

[seamad]

I run a 3500W RIMS, and use the auber ramp/soak PID. This one http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2352P%20Manual.pdf
At the back of the manual are some wiring diagrams for various setups. I wired up my own, not much difference to doing a stc, if unsure you could wire up yourself and then get it checked. Auber also sell SSRs and the other bits required.
The stc is not going to handle a rims tube ,not just the amps, but also in the control, it'll overshoot to buggery

 

[Wilson Brewing Company]

Hi Jaywalkar, You'll need a PID controlling an SSR. Something like this.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LearCNC-AC-Digital-PID-Temperature-controller-MAX-25A-SSR-K-Thermocouple-/201198790061?hash=item2ed861e5ad

You'll also need to measure the outlet temperature from the RIMS rocket.

Haven't seen a plug like that either (American?) You may have to swap to a normal 15amp plugtop.

Cheers
Matty

 

[Wilson Brewing Company]

Hit up 'DIY PID temperature controller' on google. Its pretty simple. You want the probe to read the outlet temp of the RIMS rocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-ERywkY7o

 

[jaywalkar]

Thanks guys, good info here.

This is what I have on my shopping list so far from Auberins.com (really hating our weak AUD right now);
2 * SYL-23X2P - PID Temperature Controller w/ Ramp/soak
2 * MGR-1D4825 - 25A SSR
2 * HS25 - Heat Sink for Solid State Relay, 25A
1 * PT100-L401/2NPT - Liquid tight RTD sensor, 1.5 inch, 1/2 NPT Thread (for inline RIMS temperature)
1 * PT100-L50NPT - Liquid tight RTD sensor, 2 in, 1/4 NPT Thread (for HLT temperature)
1 * L6-30R - Leviton 240V 30A NEMA L6-30R Socket For Heater

Obviously I will need an enclosure and some screws, etc. I'll have a stainless threaded T piece to connect my RIMS sensor to and connect it directly after the RIMS Rocket outlet so I think that should do the trick. Found a socket to connect this weird plug to by chance on the Auberins site so that solves the plug issue.

I am thinking I might have two power outputs for this as I can connect them to two 20A circuits at home to distribute the load. The RIMS Rocket will be on one and the Chugger pump/2200W element for the HLT on another. I might even ditch one of the PIDs/SSRs/sensors for now and just use my existing STC-1000 for the HLT element to save on costs.

If anyone can see something important I may be missing, please let me know. I think I might be able to handle this project, fingers crossed :wacko:

If I can pull this off, I will return with a with bunch of pics to post and a smile on my face.

 

[Wilson Brewing Company]

Yep get that gear in a couple of enclosures, or a large one and you'll be on your way. You can probably find that gear cheaper (ebay etc) but Auber gear has a good name. You should able to get a wiring diagram pretty easy from the google webs.

Cheers.
Matty.

 

[jaywalkar]

Haven't pulled the trigger yet. When I get a chance later tonight I will be checking out Mr eBay to see whats available, but I would prefer not to cut too many corners and unless there is a significant saving. I would rather pay a little extra for a reputable brand than do it on the cheap and regret it later down the track. If I have a PID die mid mash I might just cry.

 

[seamad]

On my first rig I had the temp probes with permanent wire, on my 3V I changed to their detachable cables, so have a socket in control box and a socket on the probe and connect the 2 with their cable, a much better set up imho, although I had to resolder the plugs as they damage easily with rough treatment. Also decide on your box design re: heatsinks... I have used the external ones on my 2nd build, but I'm running 4 ssr's.

edit: You don't need the ramp/soak model for your HLT

 

[jaywalkar]

That's a good point re HLT PID. I will get a cheaper one for the HLT.

As for the temp sensors; I was intending to use sockets to connect them. I want to be able to detach all my cables from my control box at ease.

Also decide on your box design re: heatsinks... I have used the external ones on my 2nd build, but I'm running 4 ssr's.

Could you elaborate on this? I am not familiar with external heat sinks and how to use them. The individual ones are pretty cheap so would it be easier to use them?

 

[seamad]

HS25ET is the model. Just means the cooling fins are on the outside of your box, and they passively cool. With the internal ones you often(not always) have to mount a cooling fan inside the box. The HLT one won't get too hot but the RIMS one warms up. I put mine on the outside because I'm running 4 SSRs, and all that heat would require internal cooling if using internal heat sinks.

edit : photo

 

[jaywalkar]

For the extra couple of bucks these would be worth t as I can use them to hold the SSR's in place too. Thanks beer dog. Good advice.

 

[Wilson Brewing Company]

HS25ET is the model. Just means the cooling fins are on the outside of your box, and they passively cool. With the internal ones you often(not always) have to mount a cooling fan inside the box. The HLT one won't get too hot but the RIMS one warms up. I put mine on the outside because I'm running 4 SSRs, and all that heat would require internal cooling if using internal heat sinks.

edit : photo

Yeh I had to mount a 90mm PC fan onto my enclosure with an internal heat sink to dissipate the SSR heat. (running a 3600w element). The SSR started to warp after a few brews. Once the fan was on now problems.

 

[seamad]

Piccy

 

[jaywalkar]

This has all been really great advice. I have another question though. I have found a few wiring diagrams that include a contactor and a few fuses. Seeing as though I intend on keeping this relatively simple, will the omission of these parts be a problem?

 

[seamad]

Mine is wired similar to diag 7.1 http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2352P%20Manual.pdf
Keep in mind that US 120VAC is same as ours with a live/neutral ( not their 240V). I have a fuse as per this diagram

 

[MastersBrewery]

Agree with above, Auber are the go, though you only really need the ramp soak model for your rims.

 

[cke11y]

Its overwhelming doing this I reckon.

I would only leave the PID's and the receptacle on your shopping list. Get the other gear elsewhere - it will be cheaper and no quality sacrifice I don't believe. EDIT: I know nothing about the temp sensors needed for these pid's... maybe ext bought from aubergins? definitely source SSR's elecwhere... at least 50% off.

I would happily draw you a schematic (wiring diagrams aren't all that useful initially) for some kind of contra deal. Once you understand the wiring involved you will see its pretty easy. The difficulty is finding someone to check your work - you ideally want an electrical engineer that has experience in wiring control panels in industrial settings.

My advice would be to add another receptacle to your auberins order and the matching plug for your HLT?

You'll need panel mounted 'power out' (receptacle) for your pump as well? So make it x 3?

Panel mount exits for temp sensors?

You'll want Din rail, Din rail terminal blocks, some generic din rail connecting plates, 1000000000000 types of lugs, lug crimpers, wire strippers, wire! Duh! I would use 2.5mm or 4mm flex 3-core on the Rims, but it already has a cable right? I'd consider using 2.5mm through your whole panel. Cable ducting helps keep things tidy, then you need a box! A brass terminal strip (or similar for bringing multiple earth wires to ground on your panel is good to have handy).

breathing heavily yet?

Alternatively, and someone will definitely read this post and say this, you can do it cheap and ghetto with tool boxes, cable glands and some electrical tape. I'd go the safer route though... even though more costly.

 

[jaywalkar]

Awesome cke11y. I have ordered the PID's and the special socket required for the RIMS coil along with the sensors. Went on eBay for the box, relays and heat sinks and will be paying a visit to an electrical retailer (there is a John R Turk near me) to pick up some wires, terminals, lugs, etc.

If you were able to put together some sort of schematics for me it would be appreciated. I've got a fair idea of what I need to do but it's based on extensive google searches and little experience. If you're in Sydney I'm sure I could swing a load of beer your way

I do have a friend who is an electrician and has made brewing control panels before, however he is too busy to build this for me but I am sure he wouldn't mind checking over my work once it's done.

 

[jaywalkar]

This is somewhat the schematic I will be following at present. I will just have the RIMS running on it's own PID with it's own dedicated power separate to the HLT element and pump. I am also only using one pump as I have built a two tiered stand and with gravity feed the HLT to the MT.

Only other thing I am adding is an LED indicator light for the pump, the switches I will use for both the PID's will be push button, LED illuminated.

 

[dblunn]

Hi, Just looked at your diagram, the line and neutral are back to front on the Australian plugs. When looking at the socket, the active (line) is on the left. Although when you come to wire it the socket will be colour coded so you be had pressed to do it wrong. Also, why don't you put the SSR downstream from the switch?
Dave