Got A Cidery Taste- D'oh!

[wbosher]

Just gotta get through the initial cost (ignoring stove top cooking, if you can't brew indoors)

All I got was a 50L stock pot for around $50 (I think), and a three ring gas burner...done. Didn't cost much at all, and I do it in the garage.

 

[carniebrew]

I'm not saying AG is for everyone - but when someone starts a thread with a "my beer doesn't taste quite right" there's a bleedingly obvious solution: make it from stuff that beer is made from.

:unsure: Ummm, we all do realise that extract is simply mashed/steeped grain that has had most of its water content removed via vacuum/heating dehydration methods, right?

 

[carniebrew]

All I got was a 50L stock pot for around $50 (I think), and a three ring gas burner...done. Didn't cost much at all, and I do it in the garage.

Do you chill or use a no chill method?

 

[glenwal]

:unsure: Ummm, we all do realise that extract is simply mashed/steeped grain that has had most of its water content removed via vacuum/heating dehydration methods, right?

And a K+K tin is hopped wort that has had most of its water content removed right?

 

[stux]

And a K+K tin is hopped wort that has had most of its water content removed right?

And VB is simply beer that has had most of its flavour removed

 

[carniebrew]

I stopped doing extract brews and started AG because by the time I'd bought hops, spec malts, good yeast and good malt extracts it was costing a small fortune per batch and still needing a boil after a grain steep.

I had been wondering, so perhaps a good time for a comparison. As i mentioned, i've stocked up with 15kg growlers of LME which cost me $68 from G&G. So a full extract Dr Smurto's Golden Ale costs me:

LME: 1.5kg wheat, 1.5kg light = $13.60
250gm Crystal 120 = $1.45 ($2.90 for 500gm from DHBW, saved half for my upcoming American Amber Ale)
50gm Amarillo hops = $4.25
15gm Warrior hops (if you'd rather use warrior for bittering and save all the Amarillo for late addition) = $3
US-05 yeast = $3.65

All up we're talking around $26 for 21 litres ($1.24 per litre). Given the hops and yeast would be the same cost for AG, lets say $15 for the extract and grain components. Actually I think the AG recipe for DSGA uses 250gm Caramunich I, so that's probably a direct replacement for the Crystal, so let's just say $13.60 for extract and the rest is the same for both AG and Partial boil Extract?

Now i'm guessing at the AG price of DSGA, so please correct me if I get something wrong, but from the looks it uses spot on 4kg of Pilsner, Pale Munich and Munich I. G&G's 2-20kg price for Joe White grain is $3.90 per kg, right? Lets apply the same 20% discount I got on my extract last week. So 4kg of grain = $12.48. Adding the rest of the ingredient prices in, I come to $24.88 for 21 litres ($1.18 per litre). So there's 6 cents per litre difference between them. Not quite a "small fortune per batch" by my calcs?

I think you can save money on grain by buying in bulk, but of course we're not taking into account any equipment needed for milling, mashing, full boil heating, sparging and cooling....I have no idea of the costs, if any, involved in that so any AG brewers not bored shitless yet please feel free to chip in!

 

[carniebrew]

And VB is simply beer that has had most of its flavour removed

And is an AG brew! :icon_vomit:

 

[glenwal]

I think you can save money on grain by buying in bulk, but of course we're not taking into account any equipment needed for milling, mashing, full boil heating, sparging and cooling....I have no idea of the costs, if any, involved in that so any AG brewers not bored shitless yet please feel free to chip in!

Don't G&G doing an account thing where you can pre-pay and get the 20+KG rate? so its only $2.40/KG.

Cost for equipment, assuming you don't need a mill (See previous sentence) is $19 for a big W pot and $5 for a sheet of voile from spotlight.

 

[carniebrew]

Don't G&G doing an account thing where you can pre-pay and get the 20+KG rate? so its only $2.40/KG.

Cost for equipment, assuming you don't need a mill (See previous sentence) is $19 for a big W pot and $5 for a sheet of voile from spotlight.

Thanks Glen. Can you link me to the $19 Big W pot I keep hearing about? I went looking but haven't been able to find it. The biggest I see is 8.2 litres for $34.86.

What do you do for heating a huge pot like that, and then cooling it?

So at $2.40 I think we're talking $22 for 21 litres, compared to extract's $26.

 

[glenwal]

Thanks Glen. Can you link me to the $19 Big W pot I keep hearing about? I went looking but haven't been able to find it.

What do you do for cooling?

So at $2.40 I think we're talking $22 for 21 litres, compared to extract's $26.

Looks like they don't have it on their website.

For cooling you can stick the pot in a sink with cold water (some people use ice aswell, i never bothered when I used to do it) or you can no chill (which is what I do now) either in a cube, or by covering the pot with glad wrap and leaving overnight.

 

[NewtownClown]

They are at the Big W stores. You wont find a link in their online shopping.
They do exist, I looked at one the other day.

 

[Diesel80]

Thanks Glen. Can you link me to the $19 Big W pot I keep hearing about? I went looking but haven't been able to find it. The biggest I see is 8.2 litres for $34.86.

What do you do for heating a huge pot like that, and then cooling it?

So at $2.40 I think we're talking $22 for 21 litres, compared to extract's $26.

It's like a loyalty card Carnie, with AG, every 8th brew is free!

Cheers,
D80
edit: maths

 

[glenwal]

It's like a loyalty card Carnie, with AG, every 8th brew is free!

Cheers,
D80
edit: maths

And apply a womans logic to that gives you an excuse to drink more (the more you drink, the more you save - just like buying shoes on sale.)

 

[NewtownClown]

It's not all about cost. This has been addressed here before.
Its about control and finer tuning.

 

[Nick JD]

I find the extract process lends itself well to hoppy ales; but I could never get a lager out that compared to the commercials.

And I could never get rid of that "extract" cloying thing. Ended up subbing significant amounts of dextrose to get the bloody FG down.

Might do an extract APA again.

 

[labels]

I stopped doing extract brews and started AG because by the time I'd bought hops, spec malts, good yeast and good malt extracts it was costing a small fortune per batch and still needing a boil after a grain steep.

Not really any less effort than AG, more expensive by almost double, and not quite (IMHO) as good - though still bloody tasty.

End of the day, my biggest issue with extract brewing was the horrid extracts themselves. It's like they are mashed at 70C. Makes for cloying beer - which is exactly how I can tell it's an extract beer.

I'm not saying AG is for everyone - but when someone starts a thread with a "my beer doesn't taste quite right" there's a bleedingly obvious solution: make it from stuff that beer is made from.

Nick, most kit extracts are designed to have sugar added. That is why you will get a cloying beer without using sugar which thins the beer down. Not knocking extract brewers because that is pretty much how we all started out, referrencing back is not easy and sometimes our vision of where we are now clouds our past. The guy asked a simple question and has come to the right place and looking through this thread, most advice is pretty damn good but, some could be more targeted to the OP's question.
To the OP, give it time and make an assessment when the beer is completely finished, if you're not happy report back here.

-=Steve=-

 

[halabut]

Getting back to the cidery taste problem here's an article on its causes:
cidery beer

 

[carniebrew]

It's like a loyalty card Carnie, with AG, every 8th brew is free!

LOL...i'm guessing you're a coffee drinker. Where do you get your AG card stamped?

I didn't realise ice baths worked for full boils, that's good to know. Does stove heating work for full boil, or is an LPG burner the preferred way? Takes long enough boiling my 8 litres, can't imagine how my stove would handle 25.

 

[carniebrew]

For cooling you can stick the pot in a sink with cold water (some people use ice aswell, i never bothered when I used to do it) or you can no chill (which is what I do now) either in a cube, or by covering the pot with glad wrap and leaving overnight.

Glad wrap overnight does sound bloody easy.....though it makes me wonder what John Palmer is on about in section 7.4 where he talks about having to cool the wort quickly?

"But it is very susceptible to oxidation damage as it cools. There are also the previously mentioned sulfur compounds that evolve from the wort while it is hot. If the wort is cooled slowly, dimethyl sulfide will continue to be produced in the wort without being boiled off; causing off-flavors in the finished beer. The objective is to rapidly cool the wort to below 80F before oxidation or contamination can occur."

We are terribly hijacking this thread, i've started a new topic on full boil brews here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=69478

 

[Nick JD]

Nick, most kit extracts are designed to have sugar added.

Not talking about kits. Read my post again.

Malt extracts for the homebrewing market taste like they are mashed at 70C (which undoubtably they are). This means (from an AG POV) that you have zero control over the mash temperature of your beer - and the resulting FG.

That's a big "I can't control it" in recipe development and beer attributes. Hence - I'd rather mash.

Make me a clean Euro Lager with extracts that tastes like an AG one ... and I'm buying extracts again.